Dana 44 Warn Full-float Conversion Kit Inquiry And Experience Request

I have the later kit with the set screw machined into the locking dial. For those of you with direct experience with the WARN full float conversion kit, I have two questions. There are PLENTY of opinions out on the web, and I’ve probably read most of those. I’m not really interested in rumor or “so-n-so said this…”. Please do not reference Herm's similar kit unless absolutely necessary!

1) Inner spindle seal option – this part is used/not used depending on whether or not you want the axle lubricant to reach the wheel bearings (like a typical 3/4T or 1T truck). The concern is that the liquid lubricant will seep past the locking hub and create a constant drip outside the hub. I’ve just about convinced myself to install this seal and pack the wheel bearings with grease like a typical front bearing set-up.
What’s been your experience?

2) Outward force on locking hub from shaft – some users report that an outward force is generated within the axle shaft and is only ‘stopped’ by the locking hub. Some users say this is only peculiar to having a full locker. Damage to and a non-functional locking hub have resulted. These shafts truly float with the exception of the snap ring on the outer end that keeps the shaft from going into the differential too far.
What’s been your experience?

Thanks all for keeping this site a great means for which to exchange info.

 

I have two Warn kits that I installed on early Cj’s with offset axles. Both have the locking set screw on the hubs.
One was brand new, the other from a member. Both installs are on open differentials and f-head. #1. I have had no oil leakage on either one, into the hubs. The radial seal and O ring on the spindle apparently do the job correctly. I pack them just like I would any wheel bearing. The new kit came with the radial seal/axle seal installed, as did the used. #2. There has been no friction/ rubbing on the interior of the hubs, when I removed them for service. Both have been towed and wheeled without complaint. All the seals are readily available. Just my experience, hope this helps.

 

Thanks for fast response!

 

I got a new Warn kit in 2005 and I'm running a Detroit Locker with it. Still has the original locking hubs with the set screws. No leaks and no issues so far. I've heard of folks having issues with the hubs and it doesn't appear that Warn reproduces the hubs with the set screws anymore, but mine have been fine to date.

 

Don’t overtighten the set screw or you can bend the engagement plate inside the hub. Just bring it up until it touches.
I’ve seen a few leaks from the hub when not using the axle seal but only when the seals got old and hard, damaged from misinstallation, or the little o-rings were not used on the machine screw that hold the caps on. The seals are good insurance but none of the old school floater kits, pre-Warn had them including mine.
The only time I’ve seen an issue with the axle hitting the cap is with a bent axle housing or a housing that was flexing excessively. A locker can amplify this issue. I built mine right before Warn came out with theirs and it still works good, with external locking hubs (Warn premiums of course). Having said that, the Warn kit is much better than what we were able to build. We were building them long before Herm.
We sold a LOT of Warn kits and axle accessories back in the day. We were actually the largest stocking Warn axle dealer on the West coast. That ended when Warn was purchased from Mike Warn and they demanded we also stock everything else.
For years we had people calling us, including Warn, looking for parts.
My point being we saw a lot of results good and bad with the various ff conversions.

 

Good info - thanks to all, especially nickmil, who I know has much knowledge of the hardware.
The entire kit has been discontinued.

 

Yup. Randy’s in Seattle bought it all from Warn but isn’t building the older stuff.
Which means people have to source their own or go to Herm, Richard at R&P, etc. to have one made. I can say it has gotten much more expensive to build them now. When the Warn kit first came out it $595 out the door.

 

I have those hubs on my FF and I was getting leakage through the hub and into the wheel bearing. Until I saw your post I always thought I had an issue with my axle seal allowing oil past it into the hub. Maybe my issue was this other seal you mention. Do you have any pictures?

 

This is for the early offset. #25 I believe is the axle seal. “Radial seal”

 

My Warn FF has the seal to keep the gear lube from the greased wheel bearings. I had some grease leak out of one of the seals on the hub screws. Turned out the seal was pinched.
I've had no problems to date. I did destroy one of the premium hubs. Warn replaced the set at no charge.

 

Yes #25 is the seal I've had trouble with. What is #26?

 

#25 is the seal that the kit indicates is optional. If installed, it's supposed to keep axle lube separate from wheel bearing grease.
#26 is an O-ring. It seals between the axle housing and spindle (not optional and should always be there).

There's another aspect to having the #25 seal installed. There is no polished surface on the axle shaft for which this seal interfaces (at least not on my kit). The instructions indicate the owner must fine sand and make smooth the axle shaft surface for this seal to do its job.
Usually, a seal surface is machine ground and polished maintaining a true radius. I don't know how the home mechanic / garage installer can maintain such a surface.

 

Since almost NO axle housings from that period are 100% true from the factory minimal concern and nothing Warn could do about it anyway. Just polish the shafts smooth and move on. There were some that were machined for the seals but there were later cost savings by not machining them to try and keep costs down. Especially since they found so many didn’t run the seals anyway. Wrap them in sand paper and roll them back and forth on the work bench. Keep working up to a finer grit until smooth. I’d suggest solvent or penetrating oil as a lubricant.

 

I forgot to mention when I built my full float conversion I also installed a Lock-Rite. They've both been in the same rear axle assembly since with no issues.

 

I have a Detroit locker and I haven't had any issues with the axles pushing outwards. My axles have a snap ring on the hub side which won't allow them to push out into the hub too far.

My D44 is a bit of a unicorn. It's a high-pinion with larger/thicker axle tubes than a normal D44, I haven't figured out what the original application is yet. I bought it complete with the FF already installed, but I've had it all apart to inspect and replace bearings etc. Somebody already polished my shafts for the seal which I think is my problem. The #25 seal doesn't fit tight enough on the axle shaft and I think that is where my oil is getting past. I am planning on trying to find inner axle seals that to keep oil out of the axle tubes if possible. I just went through my pictures and I do have the #26 o-ring. Somehow even with that o-ring I was leaking oil into the bearing, I could also see it on the rim after I had it parked on a slight slope for a while.



You can see the slot for the snap ring in this photo. Is that slot in the shaft with snap ring normal for a FF conversion?

 

Forgot to add.

These Timken seals #471193 are the ones I am using for the #25. Outside diameter for me is good but inside diameter could be a tad smaller. The CR Seals are #12905 and have the perfect inside diameter but too small outside.

 

This discussion has me thinking about ditching the #25 seal and letting the gear oil lube the bearings. I think I'll order some more #26 seals just to make sure mine aren't pinched or damaged or old.

 

My instructions indicate if the #26 O-ring seal isn't fully compressed, some RTV can be used in its place.

 

The snap ring grooves on the axle shafts are common. It mostly keeps the shaft from migrating inward so you have full engagement splines to hub. All the Warn shafts I’ve seen had them and my Dutchman shafts do too.
I wouldn’t use RTV in place of of the spindle o-ring but to help it if needed. Check the housing bore for any blemishes and if gouged or blemished then definitely use a little RTV. On mine I don’t have o-rings so I used a thin coat of sealer between the spindle and housing flange.
We tried to find that seal inside the spindle and never could except through Warn back in the day. I suspect Warn may have had them made for their application.