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Ever Seen Inside A Saginaw?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by joltes, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Jun 19, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member

    Wheeling, WV
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    My steering box was shot, so I took it apart to see if it was worth rebuilding. I think it is, but I will defer to you all if anybody has any insight. I took a lot of pics along the way just in case anybody else is curious. It's really not hard to tear down if you have any experience at all in the garage.

    Here it is before disassembly. You can see that the input shaft doesn't look quite right...
    The first step is to remove the cover. Loosen the nut that holds the lash adjusting screw, then remove the 3 bolts that hold the cover on. Next, if you tighten the lash screw it will push the cover plate off. Then the screw slides out of a slot in the Pitman arm.
    Next you remove the Pitman arm through the cover plate hole.
    Inside the box, now you can see the teeth of the worm nut. (this is after I cleaned off some of the old grease)
    To get the worm shaft and nut out, you have to remove the locking nut and worm bearing adjuster on the end of the box.
    Here is the bearing cup on the inside of that.
    Now the worm nut and shaft will slide out.
    On the worm nut, on the side opposite the teeth, are the ball guides, which are secured by a clamp with 3 screws in it.
    Once you remove the screws, you can remove the "clamp", ball guides and ball bearings
    Now to clean it all up and see what is worn out.

    Now for the question. The TSM says that if there is any pitting on the teeth or worm shaft, then they should be replaced. Mine has some, but it is very minor in my opinion. Would it be ok to reuse it? Also, the bushing in the cover plate seems to be worn out. Is it hard to replace that? Do you just get a new cover plate? IMG_3360.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    Fresbone, Muzikp, Bowbender and 2 others like this.
  2. Jun 20, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Silver Hill,...
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    Great thread & Pic's ! In your last Pic, It shows the shaft to have a "tapered " shoulder ? Wonderi'n if that's wear or OEM design ? I hope other's with more experience with this will advise.
    Very Good tutorial, IMHO.
    BTW, Welcome joltes .
    Lockman-----Richie
     
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  3. Jun 20, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    TSM instructions to throw away "aged" parts were written for service techs back when OEM replacement parts were only steps away and the customer was paying. I'd glass bead the pitted area, clean with acetone, skim with JB Weld, flat file excess, smooth with sand paper, paint, reuse. Low rotational speed, soft seal, holding grease. Should last forever.
     
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  4. Jun 20, 2019
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    North Central FL
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    The pitting on the shaft is more of a risk of the pre existing flaw that propagates to a crack and shaft failure. Personally I'd say you are fine, but maybe a shot peen to remove stress risers would be in order to minimize the risk..
     
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  5. Jun 20, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    It’s been there this long and hasn’t failed...... clean it and run it. I would trust that old American part way more than a “new” replacement.
     
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  6. Jun 20, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    What's the top (&for that matter the bottom) of the shaft riding on? Are there bearings in there?
     
  7. Jun 20, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Pretty sure the bushing goes in the housing to support the pitman shaft. Regarding the bushing, does the TSM give any advice? I recall that part comes in the rebuild kit. If no specific instructions, I'd try tapping it into the case with a home-made driver that seats squarely on the bushing edge and keeps the bushing aligned. Possibly you could assemble something at the hardware store that will work, or you could make a driver from an aluminum rod.

    RK550 Saginaw 525 Gears w/Stub Shaft-Repair Kit / Manual Steering Rebuild Kit - Midwest Steering


    upload_2019-6-20_9-47-35.png

    According to the text on the above kit, there is a side cover bushing for some applications, which is available. I don't recall any Jeep steering gears having a bushing in the cover. A remanufactured Jeep gear is ca $130 from RockAuto, so it will be worthwhile to fix this one, even when the parts are ca $50 plus shipping.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  8. Jun 20, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member

    Wheeling, WV
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    There are bearings at each end of the steering box that the shaft ride in.
     
  9. Jun 20, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member

    Wheeling, WV
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    I have looked at that exact kit. The bushing that comes in it goes in the side opposite of the cover plate, under the Pitman seal. The cover plate has its own bushing, and I think that I've read that it has to be finished to the proper size after installation.
    I think I'm going to order both the kit and separate bushing and decide then if it needs replaced.
     
  10. Jun 20, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member

    Wheeling, WV
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    Further info. I called Midwest Steering. The fella I spoke to advised that they don't sell the bushing for the aluminum cover plate due to the fact that the cover usually gets damaged when trying to remove the old one. They sell a nos cover instead, but in his experience the bushing doesn't generally go bad. I'm going to order the regular rebuild kit from them and see if that fixes everything up nice and tight.
     
  11. Jun 20, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    joltes , I just realized ( Now that I'm Sober :beer: ) , That my question was about the worm shaft gearing cut . Of course , it's tapered , to start the thread. I very much agree with stericlan on the pitting & trusting a replacement part.
     
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  12. Jun 20, 2019
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    X2
     
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  13. Jul 2, 2019
    joltes

    joltes Member

    Wheeling, WV
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    Well, I got the rebuild kit and put it back together. It turns out that my housing does not have a replaceable bushing for the Pitman shaft. I couldn't figure out how to get the old one out, so I called Midwest Steering and talked to a fella there that advised me that some of the housings don't have the bushing. So, it got two new bearings and bearing cups installed for the input wormshaft and two new seals to keep all the new grease in along with the gasket for the cover plate. After giving it my best shot at setting it to the torque specs in the TSM, I found it had a "miss" when I ran it back and forth. I played with the lash setting and the end cap tightness to get it to a smooth operation and put it in the Jeep the next day. I have a couple of inches of play in the steering wheel now before it starts to turn the wheels. The Jeep isn't mobile yet since I am going to replace all of the brake components. I am going to try to cycle the steering box quite a few times and then try to re-adjust the lash and torque settings and see where I stand.... If there is no improvement, I guess I will see if I can find a new wormshaft and ball nut to put in.
     
  14. Jul 3, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Sorry Man..... but , " I have a couple of inches of play in the steering wheel now before it starts to turn the wheels." sounds and 'feels' like wayyy to much play to me ? :shrug: Do you have a TSM for your reference ? All the factory specs are in there, so that helps. :study:
    Good luck & keep going, you'll solve it !
     
  15. Jul 3, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Sure it's the box? Have you checked the tie rod ends & whatever you have holding the knuckles on?
     
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  16. Jul 7, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Ever see inside a PS reservoir ? I emptied mine today , waiting for the replacement pressure line & adapters. They are kinda hard to find. Mine's comi'n from Russell's.:waiting:
    Empty PS Resevoir.JPG
     
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