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T - 14 Whine, Whine

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Lee Bennett, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Jun 27, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Took my build on its first test drive today. Found that the T 14 makes a whine noise when decelerating in 2nd and 3rd. No noise in first or when accelerating in any gear. Wonder how deep this will go. Anyone with experience please lend me your knowledge. Thanks
     
  2. Jun 27, 2019
    62CheepJeep

    62CheepJeep Member

    Spartanburg SC
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    My T90 has the exact opposite. No whine in 1st or 2nd but get above 35 in 3rd and it is horrible. Let of the gas it goes away.
     
  3. Jun 27, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sure its in the T14 and not in the D18?
     
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  4. Jun 27, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Mine is T 14
     
  5. Jun 27, 2019
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The Dana-18 (d-18) transfer case is famous for it's whine, so are you sure its the tranny not the transfer case?
     
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  6. Jun 27, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    Sorry if I was unclear...as stated above my question was more around whether you are sure the noise is transmission related (T14) or transfer case related (D18), as the transfer case is in use as part of the drivetrain even in 2wd (thus the offset rear axle).
     
  7. Jun 27, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Understood. Since first and reverse are on the same shaft (1:1) and they don't make the whine, I assume the noise is in the 2/3 gear shaft or bearings. There is no whine when decelerating in 1st. But, I know little about tranny workings. Wouldn't the transfer case whine in all gears?
     
  8. Jun 27, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    With my fingers crossed, I wonder. The ole jeep sat since 92 before I got my hands on. When I got it, I drained the tranny and chocolate milk came out. Replaced with fresh just to flush it out. I have driven it twice. The second time was quieter. Wonder if a few more miles driven might clean up it up some more. Anyone have any experience like that?
     
  9. Jun 27, 2019
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
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    Definately It could wear in and quiet down. My brother rebuilt a trashed t5 he replaced the thrust roller bearings with washers and it was noisy as hell except in 4th. He drove it a few hunderd miles it steadily got quieter now its almost normal lol. But yeah if the gears and bearings have rust on them it should smooth out after a bit.
     
  10. Jun 28, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Well, not exactly. The T-14 is a fully synchromesh transmission, so all the gears have a fixed location on the main shaft, and are engaged by sliding collars that lock or release them from the main shaft. The R-1-2 gears on the main shaft spin passively and follow the cluster gear speed unless they are locked to the main shaft by the sliding collar. The cluster gear below the main shaft meshes with the input gear and turns constantly.

    Gear reduction happens when the power is transferred from the input shaft to the cluster gear and back to the main shaft by locking one of R-1-2 to the main shaft. In top gear, the main shaft is connected directly to the input gear by the sliding collar ("clutch hub" per Jeep) and all the other gears turn passively with the cluster.

    Reverse is different in that 1) it's not synchromesh, and 2) it uses an additional small idler gear to reverse rotation and 3) it's straight cut (as opposed to helical) so it whines.

    The T-90 and T-86 are different from the T-14 and T-15 and T-150 in using a sliding gear for 1st & R, instead of the moving clutch hub.

    Given this, what could be happening to make 2nd and 3rd noisy on deceleration, but not otherwise? What do those two gears share? a clutch hub. They also share that the 1-R hub is in neutral when either of those are engaged. But I don't see an obvious place related to those parts that would whine.

    It's also possible that your noise is coming from the transfer case, and either there is enough force on the gears when decelerating to take up the slack in 1-R, or there is so much more eingine and gear noise in 1-R that you can't hear the whine. Also, transfer case intermediate gear speed is a lot lower in 1-R, which could affect whether you notice the noise. Transfer case intermediate shaft noise is really really common in these Jeeps - the D18 just does not last long without needing service. All the engine power goes through the intermediate shaft at all times.

    Did you drain and refill the transfer case? They share oil, but transfer between them is slow.

    How does the pitch of the whine change with the gear choice and speed?

    For both of these units, you can take the top or the pan off and take a look pretty easily. Not much you can do from there, but as the yogi said, you can often see a lot by looking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  11. Jun 28, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Thanks Tim. I did change fluids in both at the same time so it shouldn't be a lube issue. The whine is only during deceleration which is why I discounted the TC. I haven't tried in low range but will today. Shouldn't I then have the whine at a faster rate?
     
  12. Jun 28, 2019
    Norcal69

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    Sounds like the transfer case to me. If it makes the noise when you are in 4th gear, it’s the tc.
     
  13. Jun 28, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Deceleration or coasting is when my D18 seems to make the most noise...
     
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  14. Jun 28, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    T14. No 4th gear (unless I haven't found it yet. Finocj, do you worry much about the whine? Wonder if I hear it louder since I don't have the tranny cover off?
     
  15. Jun 28, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    no...I thought it would be much better after I rebuilt it with new intermediate shaft and bearings etc...it was a little better but its never gone...seems for most us the D18 will always whine and leak a bit.
     
  16. Jun 28, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Well, I'VE heard it on this forum many times before - drive it and fix it later! Here I go
     
  17. Jun 28, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    The Dana 18 is noisy. When the Dana 20 was introduced, it was called the "silent" transfer case. No spinning intermediate gear with the 20, unless in 4WD.
     
  18. Jun 28, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Ok, I appreciate that the 18 is noisy. Would having the transmission inspection cover off amplify the noise? Already ruled out throw-out bearing as it is quiet in its full range of movement.
     
  19. Jun 28, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    Yes - I am thinking of adding some sound proofing to the transmission hump/floorpans at some point to help minimize some of the noise. Norcal has an very nice write up of his sound damping in his build thread...I still have some floor pan work to do, and maybe a 4 speed to consider, but I think damping the noise with sound insulation is a good idea...or just drive it fast enough with the top off that the wind noise drowns it out (my normal solution).
     
  20. Jun 28, 2019
    Lee Bennett

    Lee Bennett Banned

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    Just had a great drive . The noise is nearly gone (well, as gone as a d18 might be). Guess adding some miles to the old bearings and needles made a difference. But, I think it allowed another noise to be heard. The brake shoes on the TC park brake are severely worn out so much that they rattle even when fully adjusted. In fact, I can see where some shoe material is completely missing. I already have the seals and shoes and was about to start that project. Now I wonder if I'll need a ned coupler
     
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