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Full Float Ford 9" Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by jonah, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. Nov 11, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
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    192
    I am going to start documenting my build for a new rear axle for my 3b. I am making wagoneer width to match the d44 high pinion front that i built last year. It will be a 9" full float using gm small bearing spindles, ford 5x5.5 hubs and warn 30 spline locking hubs. It will be gear 4.56 with an ARB. I haven't decided on brakes yet. El Dorado calipers would be an easy choice. I have also thought about using a standard rear caliper and the adding a small manual caliper for parking brake.

    I am going to be doing a small truss and i also need a way to align the new flanges on the axle tubes so i started making an alignment bar.

    I bought a 1.5" bar from mcmaster:
    McMaster-Carr

    Then i made some aluminum pucks to hold the bar in the carrier bearing journals.
     
  2. Nov 11, 2019
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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  3. Nov 11, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    Watching with interest because that is the axle I want in the butt of my 3B also. Coincidentally, I also bought a F250 high pinion D44 for my front axle only to give up on that due to driveshaft clearance issues. I settled for a narrowed F250 low pinion housing.
     
  4. Nov 11, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
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    192
    I used the same high pinion D44 for my front, i had to re-tube it which was a lot of work but it worked out ok. It is very tight and that is with running it waggy width with outboarded springs. I do have my motor mounted a little high as well which helps and i run a sm465 with a dana 300. I would love to get a hi-nine center section for the rear, the pinion gear sits low on the 9 inch. I am hoping it doesn't give me too much additional driveshaft angle. I have to measure it still.
     
  5. Nov 11, 2019
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
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    Made a little progress, but not too much being a slave to the man and all.

    Test fit of the bar. Full disclosure...it took two trys. The first set ID was a couple of thousandths too big which gave probably .050" movement at the end of the bar. This set is tight!

    Interesting that this housing is not perfectly straight. The alignment bar is closer to the top of the housing. I wonder if it is compensation for the vehicle weight. When loaded it should push the center down and the ends up. I would expect it to be bent the opposite way if was damaged by jumping or other abuse. I will try to make it perfect when installing the truss. I might check the other housing that i have too for comparison although this should be the theoretically stronger housing according to 9 out of 10 internet experts.
     
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  6. Apr 20, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
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    192
    Finally got back to this project today.

    Started off grinding off the remains of the factory brackets. I was thankful for having the big Milwaukee.

    Set up the chop saw and after measuring many times, made the cuts:

    The housing was cut to 47.750" with the pumpkin centered. The flanges for the ends of the tubes will add 1 inch to each end. Then with spindles and hubs I should end up at 58.5" wms which is what the factory wagoneer was. Anywho, I made the measurements for the tube ID (ranged was 2.568"-2.572"). The flanges will be pressed in and welded. I started cutting the flanges on my little lathe, I can't take big cuts so it is going to take a little while.

     
    73 cj5 likes this.
  7. Apr 20, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    The plan for the flange, although I need to update this drawing a little:

    Starting to rough it in:
     
    47v6, 73 cj5, Rich M. and 2 others like this.
  8. May 11, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
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    Back on the build. I finished tuning all of the outer dimensions on both of the flanges. Turned the inner features on the first, nailed it with all dimensions within 0.001". Since I am on roll I start cutting the inner features on the second flange, I can't be stopped, I am knocking these parts out, I am going to finish...until the last cut. After measuring and remeasuring with 0.180" to go on the last cut to get the correct diameter for the spindle counterbore, I start making cuts. After cutting 0.100" I remember that I am working on my home lathe and the dials are marked for the radius. That makes 0.200" on the diameter and a scrapped part...

    I purchased another blank, and started over on flange #2. All went well and all the lathe work is done on the flanges. Time to drill the hole pattern.

    Started the boring job.

    Oil seal fits!

    Nice fit on the alignment bar!

    Spindle fits. I cut an old spindle down and bored it out to fit the alignment bar to help hold it all straight while welding the flange to the axle housing.


    Studs are a tad too short. They would be ok if I didn't have to add the brake backing plate to the mix. Having trouble sourcing longer press in studs, so I might have to counterbore the head into the back of the flange.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    47v6, Fireball, 73 cj5 and 4 others like this.
  9. May 11, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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    Nov 25, 2008
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    Impressive work!
    I’m a big fan of the Ford 9 inch.
    I’ll be curious on your choice for brakes.
     
    jeepstar and ITLKSEZ like this.
  10. May 11, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
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    Thanks! I have always wanted to build a 9 inch, so when my old amc 20 got a leaky axle seal, i figured the only reasonable course of action was to build a 9".

    I am going early cj style on the brakes. TomTom gave me a set of 11" backing plates with the 6 bolt pattern. I just have to open the center bore. I thought about going disk, with el Dorado calipers to deal with the parking brake problem but since i am currently set up for rear drum with the master and proportioning valve, i am going to stick with drums. I know, kind of boring.
     
  11. May 11, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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  12. May 11, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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    I’m not sure what I did there but I think you’ll get my message?
     
  13. May 12, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Joined:
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    • I have read the el Dorados are fussy and i have never liked the internal drums so good old drums made sense to me. I like to have the ability to easily lock up the rears with the e-brake and my current set up fits that bill. I do have to figure out a drum that will work with the front ford hub. The drums i have are about .75 too shallow, the back edge of the drum cant reach the backing plate. I need to do some measuring and searching.
     
  14. May 12, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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    Currie sells blank brake drums, I’ll bet they would have one for your brake shoe diameter and width. With your machining skills you could cut your own center hole and wheel bolt pattern or they could do it for you.
     
  15. May 12, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Very nice work and project! One question though, where are you going to get 30 spline Warn locking hubs? You may have to think about another source or use drive flanges.
     
  16. May 13, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Thanks for that info, it might come to that. I have 3.25" from the wms to the backing plate, i think it is within the realm of possibility.
     
  17. May 13, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Thanks! Warn makes locking hubs in 30 spline now. Mainly to support the RCV shafts. You can also readily get drive slugs too. The shafts will be a little weird, 31 spline in the ARB and 30 on the hub, but it was the best i could come up with using dana 44 stuff so i could keep 5x5.5 wheels. I probably should have gone with 14bolt or dana 60 spindles and hubs for a larger shaft on hub end and then modified the hub for 5x5.5, but i went this way.
     
  18. May 13, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    I got all of the holes drilled today. Boy am i glad i installed a DRO on the mill, makes bolt circles very easy and everything matched up perfectly. I put the alignment bar in the housing and slid the flanges on, one end went right in the tube. The other end was misaligned by about .125". Not a surprise on an old housing. I broke out the torch and heated up a stripe on the side that i wanted the tube to move to. Got the metal medium orange and then cooled with a wet towel. Pulled it right in. Housing is straight, we will see if it stays straight when i weld up the truss!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  19. May 18, 2020
    jonah

    jonah Member

    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Drilling the bolt circle.

    Luckily i screwed up the second flange, it has come in handy for mocking up and testing additional operations. I needed to recess the studs so i tried two methods. First a normal counter bore. I didn't really like this because it doesn't provide a flat for the head of the stud to keep it from turning in case the splines fail to hold. Plus it didn't look very good. So I made a fixture to hold the flange upright in the mill and cut a flat. I think it looks better and it works well.

    Hub mock up, man I love new parts!

    What was I saying about drum brakes...
     
  20. May 18, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    interesting. Warn had quit making the 30 spline hub gears when they sold the hub conversion and FF stuff to Randy’s. I had to call in a bunch of favors years ago to get the last 3 in their inventory. Glad to hear they are making them again.
     
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