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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. May 13, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    which smells jut like burnt oil mixed with gas - basically that is what the draft tube exhaust smells like, but I think the general exhaust is a bit less oily smelling.
     
  2. May 13, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Your plugs are so clean it's hard to imagine that the ignition is not complete. It just doesn't seem like much if any unburned gas could be getting into the crankcase.
     
  3. May 13, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    With the plugs that clean, it doesn't seem like the engine is on it's last legs.

    You could always wire a soup can up under the draft tube to see if that's where the oil is coming from. Or put a hose on it to route it elsewhere and see if the mess follows. That would at least eliminate blow-by as the cause.
     
  4. May 13, 2020
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    My gut feeling says, you have an oil leak at the rear of the intake manifold and block. You said you had the intake off last fall and had some trouble with the gaskets. Also, you said you have the distributor out now. That means you are effectively a few bolts away from having the intake off the engine. With that off, and valve covers off, you should be able to inspect every sealing surface on the engine top. If there is a leak there, it will be obvious. RTV works well for sealing the intake to block once the surfaces are cleaned of any oil. Pay particular attention to the areas where the block, intake and heads intersect. The gaskets supplied can be troublesome. The distributor uses a ring gasket to seal to the intake manifold.

    The fact that your 63 year old engine has some blow shouldn't be a surprise. As to whether it's worth rebuilding, well guys here rebuild L and F head engines. Just saying. Draft tube engines can be changed to positive crank case ventilation.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  5. May 13, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    This. Use RTV for the end seals.
     
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  6. May 14, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I wish it were that easy...but its done....
    Here is the rear gasket....definitely part of the problem
    [​IMG]

    I couldn't see the rear gasket when installing, but I know the front one wanted to keep 'squeezing out' as it was tightened down - was really hard to evenly tighten down, and even then, the get the bolts to torque spec seemed to squish the front gasket out - looks like the rear suffered as well....No end gaskets this time, just an RTV bead and the side fel-pros. The current side ones look to be perfect as they are still perfectly stuck on the manifold but not worth trying to re-use I guess...just going to be a PITA to scrape off the intake....lots of cleaning ahead.

    But starting all new with replacement everything...and I think I am going to go back to using Ultra Black as my RTV of choice. So I am back to where I was 8 months ago with the oil pan off, the oil filter adapter off, the carb off, the distributor out, the intake off and add in the valve covers are off....that should about cover it right. Any reason to pull the heads at this point...:rolleyes:. I am going to redo all gaskets including the oil filter adapter gaskets....don't know that I will do them any better than I did last time but it can't be worse (hopefully).
     
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  7. May 14, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Just dawned on me...I put the distributor shaft ring gasket at the base of the distributor on top of the intake....But do I also need to seal between the mating faces of the top of the block and the underside of the manifold? Maybe a smear of RTV around the shaft hole at the mating surface?
     
    Dne007 likes this.
  8. May 14, 2020
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Cypress, Tx
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    I think I'd just pull the engine and get it over with. Start with a nice pretty engine (y), then of course you'll have to install a new clutch and more than likely a bunch of other things :confused::crazy:

    Nothing like a pretty engine :sneak:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. May 14, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    But just think of how much more familiar you are with it now. ;) You don’t learn anything by doing it right the first time.
     
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  10. May 14, 2020
    Dne007

    Dne007 Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    That is so true! maybe even the second or third time to get it right, which gets very frustrating :banghead: maybe even expensive to boot :madwife:
     
  11. May 14, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    nevermind - now that is apart I see - they don't touch, its all part of the oiling system.

    3rd install of the intake manifold...time to go to FLAPS and get some new gaskets and start getting them set-up on the intake and valve covers and let them set for a day or so while getting the engine side of things ready.

    I've never really had a choice of which to install first - the VCs and intake have never been off at the same time....thinking intake first, especially so i can see the corners and then the VCs.
     
  12. May 14, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Member

    Omaha NE
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    You might consider using “The Right Stuff” instead of those manifold gasket ends. It’s an amazing product that has solved many problems like your experiencing. It’s designed to squeeze out and maintain a seal.
     
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  13. May 14, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Agreed. That's the only thing I use for manifold ends. Put a large bead on the block and let it stiffen a bit to hold it's shape, then smear a thin coat on the bottom manifold ends to promote adhesion and install.
     
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  14. May 14, 2020
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    What ever you use, be it The Right Stuff or Ultra Black to seal the intake manifold to the block, just make sure the sealing surfaces on both block and intake are clean and free of oil. I typically put a spot of sealant where the block and heads intersect, set intake gaskets in place and then run the bead along the block overlapping the gaskets where you put the spots of sealant previously.
     
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  15. May 16, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Getting stuff back together, but took a little side-trip this afternoon....I inspected the carb (it was off the manifold) to see if I could figure out any linkage or mistakes I made during the rebuild - it just doesn't feel like its ever opening up the secondaries. Now, I've never driven a quadrajet (or even a 4 barrel carb I don't think), but my gut feeling is that when those much bigger secondaries open, it should be noticeable. First I noticed for what little driving its seen, there was already quite a bit of varnish and gunk building up - especially around the secondary choke plate and butterfly - it was a bit sticky as if it hasn't been operating. When moving the throttle linkage, there are two tabs - as the throttle linkage opens, the upper tab moves down until it pushes on the lower tab. As the lower tab moves, it is connected to linkage that opens the secondary butterfly.
    [​IMG]

    On the bench. all seemed fine, but when I put it back on the manifold and connected the pedal linkage....The throttle was bottoming out just about the time the upper tab hit the bottom tab - and thus the secondaries were never opening...Here it is with the gas pedal floored - the two tabs just touching, but the bottom tab has not moved.
    [​IMG]

    I thought I was going to have to figure out some changes to the gas pedal to allow for more travel, but then through some internet research, found that the quadrajet has different mounting locations for the pedal linkage.....In the case of the one I have, it has 3 positions represented by the 3 holes....The pedal linkage was in the middle hole. As the throttle rotates the mounting holes on an arc, the same amount of pedal movement can create different amounts of throttle rotation....So I moved the pedal linkage to the lowest, innermost hole, such that it will cause more rotation.
    [​IMG]

    Now it allows for the the upper tab to move into the second tab and continue moving to open the secondaries, all with the same pedal range of motion. It will also make the gas pedal a bit more sensitive to subtle changes, but going to give it a try. I might even get the return spring out of the uppermost throttle hole and down to its appropriate mounting location on the bottom-most tab and run it towards the firewall - possibly using the coil bracket mount.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  16. May 16, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Youll know when the secondaries open up on that qjet, it'll bellow like an angry bull!
     
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  17. May 17, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    now your just getting my hopes up....
     
  18. May 17, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    :D
    Also they have a reputation as a good off road carb. The float bowl is small and positioned between the primary throttle bores so it's less prone to flooding out at extreme angles.
     
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  19. May 17, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Good Job with the Linkage Hole. Below is a pic of proper linkage & spring location. The rear cable & spring mount is the Ideal bracket to have. It's a GM part for SBC's. I Used to rebuild these , back in Tech school . Best Carb ever made . Variable CFM's . When this is right , Have a neck pillow for when you tromp on it. :shock: :whistle:
    Here's the Gm Part # that is missing on your engine : Accelerator Throttle Cable Bracket, Quadrajet 3992376
    Qaudrajet Linkage.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  20. May 17, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    X 2! He'll have a :shock: and a :D. Gotta be careful though otherwise he'll need another T-90.
     
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