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Fino's Sbc Build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Oct 11, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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  2. Oct 11, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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  3. Oct 11, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    first valves I ever lapped . were a lawn mower . dad taught me :D
     
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  4. Oct 12, 2020
    CJ Joe

    CJ Joe Truckhaven Tough!

    Pinon Hills, CA
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  5. Oct 12, 2020
    SoCalNickG

    SoCalNickG Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Whittier, CA.
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    Let me start by saying I am not a professional mechanic, probably not even a good shade tree mechanic. Looking at what you’re trying to do; I would clean and lap the valves, making sure to keep each valve in correct cylinder, and then decide. I haven’t lapped valves in a long time. I have used the wooden dowel tools (slooooow process) and have two in my tool box (I can send you one). Today I would fix a dowel type tool in a cordless drill and use that to lap. I would use slow speed and reversing the action occasionally. I think with enough lapping compound, and elbow grease, you can seat the valves well enough. The biggest cost would be your time. Mark the valve and the seat with a Sharpie and lap to remove the ink, rinse and repeat. IMO if you can get a uniform sealing line on the valve/seat, I’d use it. These engines have been rebuilt/ repaired in back yards and garages for 60 years. They don’t have to be perfect to be reliable. Even with one burnt valve, and running on 7 cylinders, the sbc will do pretty good. AMHIK!:rofl:
    My advice would be “Try what you have before spending $$$$”.
     
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  6. Oct 14, 2020
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
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    Would it be out of the budget to get new valves, have the valve seats ground at the machine shop and lap them in and assemble yourself? I don't know how much but I would guess SBC valves are very reasonable. Just another thought.
     
  7. Oct 14, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Guess in a way I shouldn't be surprised by what your finding - they did say they built it themselves. My guess is they didn't get a good lap on the valves and that is what has caused all the carbon build up.

    As other have said - I'd clean and lap the valves. For what your wanting to do, that should be good enough for several years of running. I've got a hand tool for lapping valves around here somewhere, and I believe one that fits in a drill. If not, they may be buried down on the farm somewhere. The first time I did it was with Dad on the old flathead in the '46 I learned on.

    I can look for them if you want to borrow them.
     
  8. Oct 14, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I was always told not to use a torch to burn the carbon off as it could get too much heat and warp areas in the valve train - true or not? It was also why I was told they had the 'heads washing machine' at the machine shops.

    And Mr C who taught me much of this had an old hot water heater and old dish washer in his shop to do this 'stuff'...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  9. Oct 14, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Of all the aluminum cylinder heads I did that to none had problems afterwards. It doesn’t take much to turn it to ash. You know shops use industrial ovens (thermal cleaning) to “cook” engines and such with. I have some pictures if you’re interested. They usually go in an airless shot blaster after thermal cleaning then a tumbler to remove the shot.

    I wouldn’t give bad advice. Not intentionally anyhow.
     
  10. Oct 14, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    FWIW - I disassembled the heads, cleaning all the parts and pieces...this is going to be a budget, re-use anything and everything if at all possible reconstruction. I am hand lapping the valves, and cleaning everything by hand the hard way. The driver bank had much worse carbon build up on the valves, and its the valve seats on 2 cylinders on the driver bank that are slightly pitted - there rest look pretty good. After cleaning, all the valves seem fine - no damage, or burnt edges, no loss of material anywhere, the stems and fit in the valve guides seems good enough etc - quite possibly new replacement valves barely used....Having not seen this stuff before, I am just guessing, but it kind of seems like the valves may never have been lapped - there isn't much of a 'ring' around them. Its there, but very faint. Its also possible they were not lapped 'recently'...i don't know, and not sure it matters. I think its going to be fine....I still have to drop the pan and look at the bottom end, but I don't have much work bench or garage space, so i am going to risk doing all the head work first, and complete lapping, painting and reassembly of the heads, then go to the bottom end. I have to go back to my mother's heritage and birthplace in rural south GA next month - so I am doing my best to channel my long suppressed southern redneck-ness, and slap this thing together is a number of questionable ways, and then see what I can blow up first: the engine, the T90 or the something else....
     
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  11. Oct 14, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Not implying that - just asking as we all have different levels of knowledge, and technologies change. My first impulse was to burn it off, then wire brush it. Being a kid at the time, I was told I was always looking for the 'easy way out' :)
     
  12. Oct 14, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Here was the worst valve in terms of carbon build-up....I think this was #5...
    [​IMG]

    But a lot of cleaning and lapping - I like how the intake valves look, and I think I got the seats looking better. The exhaust seats were better than the intake seats to start, and look pretty good now, but the intake valves are still rough even after a lot of compound work. But at some point, seemed it was as good as it was going to get and decided to test them....hard to see it, but the closest combustion chamber (#2) here is full of water....its not perfectly water tight, but its only a couple seepy 'drips' over 10 min or so...I think (hope) its good enough...still have the driver bank to lap, but all the cleaning and prep work is done....
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  13. Oct 14, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I'm not happy until I see electrolysis used somehow...
    :whistle:
    All you need is dishwasher powder, a rickety old power supply (battery charger) and a big tote.
     
  14. Oct 15, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    Small blocks are very forgiving. it will work. You would be surprised if you saw some of the sbc shenanigans we have pulled off. V7 anyone? Pounded the busted rod back into the hole and flashing filled the hole did two derby’s with that boat before it puked.
     
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  15. Oct 15, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    When re-assembling the valve train, I am planning on using a o-ring and umbrella seal for both intake and exhaust valves. The umbrella seals that came off are the basic style:
    [​IMG]

    I worry about damaging the o-rings when using the spring compressor to get the the keepers on...my plan is to slide the valve through the guide in the head, put the umbrella seal and o-ring on, thenput the spring and spring cap pieces in place and use the spring compressor to then get the keepers in place. At least that is how I think it works.

    Is it worth using the fel-pro style like this with the clamping band? Looks like they are only used on the intake valves, and the traditional style would still be used on the exhaust valves... Considering my budget build - probably not worth it....
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...efFFre5ZvICmkX7CLO8CeNISBevZx_YxoCZrYQAvD_BwE
     
  16. Oct 15, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    lubricate valve stem with oil, install the valve, umbrella seal, spring w/ retainer, O-ring into bottom groove, keepers, remove compressor, place rag over valve spring, lightly tap top of valve with small hammer. Ron
     
  17. Oct 15, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I used some of those on my 4.3L. I would use them again. I feel they are better with controlling blue smoke after decel. This is much easier done now with the heads off.
    I was being cheap at the time because I wanted vortec heads long term.

    Your at the point of my post 62
    Rebuild for "miles"
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  18. Oct 15, 2020
    CharlesC83

    CharlesC83 Wrench

    Lewiston Idaho
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    If you're channeling southern Redneck-ness, Make sure the last thing you do after you assemble it on the engine stand is slap the valve cover and say "she's gonna run reel good uummmmmhhhmmmmm, built it myself".

    Make sure to Let everybody else know it's a 4-bolt main with camel hump heads and 3/4 race cam. They'll know you're a real engine builder that way. And how much power you have.
     
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  19. Oct 15, 2020
    Ohiowrangler

    Ohiowrangler Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Newark, Ohio
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    Don't forget the chrome valve covers, good for 50 horses, and turns it into a vette motor. Ron
     
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  20. Oct 15, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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