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Crack Pipe Time- Automatic Manual Tranny

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Howard Eisenhauer, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. Apr 23, 2011
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    I've noticed a couple of threads lately on auto trannys & the reason for having them. While some people prefer them for rock crawling purposes others want them because, for various reasons, they don't/can't/won't (want) to be bothered with the clutch.

    I've been working on restoring a Bendic Hydrovac brake booster & while researching how these things work I came up some references to other items Bendix built back in the day. One of these gizmos was a clutch control which was used as part of early "automatic" shifters back in the late 30's. A good example of one of these is the Hudson "electric hand"-

    http://hudsonterraplane.com/tech/1935/1935-38ElectricHandTechInfo.pdf

    Other systems in use can be found here

    It occurs to me it might be possible to have the best of both worlds here- a vacuum assisted clutch should be easy to do, a totally remote controlled clutch not much harder and an "automatic" clutch possible.

    Let's go really nuts- add a couple of vacuum controlled or electric servos tied to the tranny shift rails & you could have an automatic T90:twisted:

    I have absolutely no intent to personally attempt any of this (at least while I can still muster the strength to push the clutch pedal :)), for me it's really just a thought experiment but I'd love to hear *your* thoughts on this.

    What Say Ye?

    H.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  2. Apr 23, 2011
    Eaallred

    Eaallred Member

    West Valley City, UT
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    Sounds a lot like the VW "auto-stick". They're neat to drive, but never caught on very well. Overcomplication of the system. Either stick shift, or automatic. Not a big need for an overcomplicated and trouble prone "something in the middle".

    But again, neat to drive. Very weird and unnatural. lol
     
  3. Apr 23, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    This can be done. I had a buddy years ago with a Toyota 4x4 with a 5 speed and he was a paraplegic. He had an air shift set up hooked up to the pedal that worked very well. He left the pedal in case something happened and someone else had to drive it. The unit could be disconnected very easily iirc.
     
  4. Apr 23, 2011
    Ghetto Fab.

    Ghetto Fab. Member

    Atascadero, Ca.
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    Don't some large semi-trucks have autos similar to this, essential an air shifted trans. I think they just automaticly let of the gas, adjust engine rpm to match and shift instead of using the clutch.

    Kevo
     
    dozerjim likes this.
  5. Jan 12, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    The over/under used air or vacuum to shift it. You did have to adjust RPM/speed co-ordination.
     
  6. Jan 12, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    Yep...I sell Mack truck parts, and our version is called "Mdrive"
    Basically a manual trans that shifts itself.
    Ford has what they call a dual clutch automatic, which is the same type of thing.
    The important thing to remember is that these are computer controlled transmissions...I think it'd be difficult to accomplish without that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  7. Jan 12, 2016
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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  8. Jan 12, 2016
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    what about the paddle shifter set up in open wheel racing and rally racing cars? How are the clutches operated in them?
     
  9. Jan 13, 2016
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    For hydraulic clutch systems it looks like there's already a solution, google "VH44 clutch booster", looks to be the same setup as a Bendix Hydrovac.

    H.
     
  10. Jan 13, 2016
    Deaner70

    Deaner70 Member

    Shreve, Ohio
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    When I was racing there were guys that had "clutched " automatics. They had a clutch in front of the auto, and it worked as normal, then you shifted the transmission like an auto. They could leave at a high rpm, then shift the auto for a non interrupted shift. Pretty neat. Seen Clutched Turbo and Clutch flights.
     
  11. Jan 15, 2016
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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  12. Dec 2, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  13. Dec 2, 2021
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    I have ridden in a road tractor with auto air shift, would even down shift ,really slick......guy ask me if I wanted to try it out but I was afraid I would grab the shifter and screw it up lol....I normally do not use the clutch once Im rolling any ways....
     
  14. Dec 4, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    The modern computer controlled "manual" gearboxes are pretty slick. I'm most familiar with those used by BMW and VW. They are SMG transmissions, or Sequential Manual Gearboxes. These are actual manual transmissions that are computer controlled by servos. In the case of older BMWs, there is a 6 speed manual, and an SMG version of the same transmission, or a juice automatic available for the same model car. The difference is the SMG box doesn't have any shift detents to "lock" the particular gear selection. The 6 spd manual (a fairly rare option) has become very desirable to convert conventional juice automatics to manuals, so the prices for the manual transmissions have gotten stupid. The SMG equipped cars were pretty common, so there are lots available. Well, somebody figured out how to drill the front case to add the detents (balls/springs), effectively converting the SMG to a conventional manual. A benefit is the SMG transmissions are usually in much better condition, syncro-wise, because the computer perfectly rev-matched the engine to the speed, rather than a driver working the syncros hard to accomplish the same gearchange.

    My girfriend's VW GTI has an DSG 6 speed (direct shift gearbox) which is, again, a manual gearbox, not a slushbox. It can be paddle-shifted, or left in "drive" to row its self through the gears. There are several "modes" like sport, comfort. It is a dual clutch setup, where one clutch operates 1st, 3rd, and 5th, and the other clutch does the even gears. This way, the "next" gear can be pre-selected and ready for the next gearchange, up or down. Again, the computer controls everything, whether paddle shifted or left in drive. It is strange to feel it downshift through every gear every time you slow down and stop in traffic for a stoplight. Pressing the brake pedal under a certain speed "clutches" the car, dis-engaging the driveline. I'm used to bringing the revs up a bit and "brake-torquing" an automatic for a quicker launch off the line, but this provides the opposite response from the VW. The foot on the brake disengages everything, so there is a big delay to get things rolling again. Its hard to break old habits!
    These computer-shifted cars today are amazing with the speed, accuacy, and rev-matching abilities that no human can duplicate, plus they seem quite reliable. Technology!
    -Donny
     
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