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Overthinking Again....winch Cables

Discussion in 'Winches' started by wheelie, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. Apr 27, 2022
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Been thinking about and talking to people about and googling steel cable. Winch cable, crane cable, elevator cable. Specifically 5/16 for an 8k rated winch. Pretty sure my old Ramsey 8000 came with 1/4" cable. I stepped it up to 5/16 when I replaced the cable last year. So, I was a bit surprised to figure out that major winch brands advertise and sell their cables at the cables rated breaking strength vs. the working load limit.

    For example, the 5/16 steel cables (of almost all designs and uses) are rated at around 9000 lbs breaking strength, give or take a few hundred pounds. Replacement winch cables of this diameter are sold for 8000-9500 lb rated winches. But my snooping finds that these cables have a working load limit of around 2500 lbs.

    Now, I know all this is moot as I/m sure that major, well known and respected companies would not supply their winches with a potentially dangerous subpar cable nor would they sell replacements that are the same. It just surprises me on some level after being in construction for so many years and always being taught and thinking in terms of working load limits. I do feel the WLL is sometimes underrated in a sense but still.

    Going by these numbers I found, it wouldn't be safe to pull a CJ5 with a 5/16 cable, let alone a bigger vehicle like an F250 or something. You start getting into 1/2" and bigger cable to attain WLL sufficient for vehicle recovery.

    Or maybe I'm misunderstanding it all. That's happened before. So....that's what I've been doing this evening. What do you all think about this, aside from my overthinking it? Going by everyday events and a history of tons of people pulling all kinds of stuff out of all kinds of places and situations, I'm sure the 5/16 is fine for most average sized vehicle recovery.
     
  2. Apr 27, 2022
    boopiejones

    boopiejones I can’t drive 55

    California east bay
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    I think you’re correct. But by using a snatch block when appropriate and keeping your cable in good condition, you can minimize the chance of it breaking. I use synthetic rope. It’s significantly lighter, has a higher breaking strength, and much less chance of a catastrophic failure.

    also, I recall reading a winch shootout a few years back and none of the winches could pull more than a few hundred pounds beyond their rating (some brands stalled out, while other brands actually self destructed when they hit the limit). Obviously a broken winch is no consolation, but it does limit the chances of a properly maintained cable snapping and causing injury.
     
  3. Apr 27, 2022
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
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    Typically, how much load do you put on a winch? You are not normally dead lifting the entire weight of the Jeep. Unless you are stuck deep the actual load is way less than the breaking limit. I have stalled winches but never broken a cable.

    I am a firm believer in synthetic as well. It does wear more from rubbing on rocks and such but it is much safer to use.
     
    Tumbleweed and Bondo like this.
  4. Apr 27, 2022
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    lr.jpg
     
  5. Apr 27, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    5/16" steel has always been more than adequate on my jeeps, and I have moved many, many, tons of boulders and etc. at maximum pull with jeep PTO winches. Pretty sure that was OEM spec by Ramsey and others.

    Also "taken it to the limit" a thousand times with 5/16" on my Power-Pullers, and moving barns, etc with turnbuckles and so forth and never broke a cable.

    Something like 1/2" steel cable would be monstrous.

    For my uses I would never consider synthetic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  6. Apr 27, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Another that will not be using steel cable on a winch again-save maybe the ATV.
     
  7. Apr 27, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Synthetic rope with a couple sliding chaff guards. Soft shackles, a couple different length tow straps and a tree saver. There is no reason to tear up a synthetic rope if used properly.
     
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  8. Apr 27, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    After doing a lot of research into this I run 3/8" 7x19 galvanized steel, & at that the rope place didn't like selling it to me because it's not "man rated" for 8000 lbs pull. I've read someplace that 3/8 is the intended size for these winches, certainly that's what the anchor hole in the drum is sized for.

    And remember two things-

    A 200 pto winch will pull a lot more than 8k before it breaks

    A stuck vehicle may weigh 4k lbs but it''s gonna take a lot more than that to drag it through mud.​
     
    Desert Runner and wheelie like this.
  9. Apr 27, 2022
    Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Senior member

    Mtn. Home, Idaho
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    I like synthetic for vehicle recovery use, and steel for farm/ranch use. I will be glad to send out Steve Schoenfelder's email or phone # if you want it. He is the head of warranty and customer service at Warn. They might have an explanation.
     
  10. Apr 27, 2022
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    From the original King Koenig manual...

    "List prices of all King winch assemblies for Willys vehicles include 150' of 5/16th 6x19 plow steel, hemp center cable with Hook. So long as this 8,000 lb. test cable is used, there is little danger of winch damage under capacity load or rough handling."

    I rest my case.
     
  11. Apr 27, 2022
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    I figure my Jeep is around 2500 -2750 pounds of vertical lift.
    I use a 5/1 safe working load limit intended for vertical lifting applications.
    I generally prefer to calibrate all my hardware components to this 5/1 working load limit.
    Shackles, snatch blocks, straps etc.
    The cable itself is the only exception.
    Some 8000 pound winch drums will accept 3/8” cable at the secure hole while others can only accept 5/16” ropes.
    Double your 5/16 cable and it will never break first.
     
  12. Apr 27, 2022
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    I am also interested in a more flexible cable. I’m told crane cable is more pliable than aircraft cable as is elevator cable. And I have considered switching to rope. I’m tired of my cable unwinding itself into a mess when free spooling it out. Maybe it needs stretched and used more. The spring loaded plate underneath the spool isn’t doing its job. I’ve seen some stuff about fixing them with stringer springs or totally replacing them with aftermarket parts.

    I suppose this thread should be in the winches forum which I forgot existed. Apologies. Mods can move it if appropriate.
     
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  13. Apr 27, 2022
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Moved...
     
  14. Apr 27, 2022
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    I Object on the grounds of hearsay. :p
     
  15. Apr 29, 2022
    cj2atruck

    cj2atruck Member

    Spokane, WA
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    I use synthetic on my 2014 Rubicon, as it sees standard off-road recovery...mostly of other rigs. I have about 130 winch pulls on the warn and I would hate to drag a heavy cable around doing vehicle recoveries.

    I use steel on my 47 cj2a truck conversion, as I use it to clean up trees on the property that fall each winter and only use it to recovery myself while off-road. Not really interested in dragging synthetic rope up the side of a hill dragging a tree behind it.

    IMHO, 5/16 is plenty for a little CJ, but a stretch for a newer JK, only because of the weight difference in the two rigs.
     
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