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Oil Spraying From Fram Filter Canister

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by HellaSlow, Jan 2, 2023.

  1. Jan 2, 2023
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2024 Sponsor

    Burbank, CA
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    I need help figuring out why there is oil spraying from the fram filter cannister all over my firewall, the air cleaner, underside of air intake tube, and top of generator.

    1964 Cj5 with an F-head 134.

    The jeep has been sitting for a while. I just bought it last week and the first drive (about 5 miles) was cut short due to this oil spraying all over the engine bay. based on the spatter pattern I think it came from the fram oil canister. Not sure if from the very top, the rubber seal, or one of the hoses connected to it.

    My question is.... what could have caused this? A dirty filter/old oil? Excess pressure in the engine?

    I have a single action fuel pump (not sure if that's relevant... Ive heard the dual action ones have something to do with vacuum pressure) and I think what looks like a PCV above it. I'm a novice with this stuff though so If anyone notices anything that looks out of place or has any theories, please let me know.

    I've ordered a new filter, oil, and gasket and will be doing an oil change this week.

    Addtionally, The engine seems to be leaking from every gasket. There was a complete restoration done about 10 years ago by a previous owner. Could the gaskets be failing this soon?

    Ive circled in RED where the oil sprayed and in what direction.


    Is this the PCV?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
  2. Jan 2, 2023
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    I can't say why it sprayed everywhere but there's a seal under the cap of the oil canister. You could also just throw a wrench on the bolt to make sure it's tight. Yes, that's the PCV valve.
     
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  3. Jan 2, 2023
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2024 Sponsor

    Burbank, CA
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    Would excess pressure cause the seal and other gaskets to fail? Or could it just be a coincidence/age/etc? Just wondering if there's a smoking gun of sorts.

    Thx for the quick reply btw!
     
  4. Jan 2, 2023
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    IMO it could be a slew of possibilities. If the oil pan rail bolt holes are pulled it possibly could cause a leak. The pan rail on the block itself isn't necessarily a precision machined surface so that is just another thing to cause possible oil seepage. If there were excess crankcase pressure it could blow out the gaskets/seals and if you had excess oil pressure it could blow out the oil canister seal and/or blow out the hoses. The only way I can see that happening is if the oil pump relief gets stuck somehow.

    It is also my opinion that oil leaks are more or less going to have to be expected on something that is...seasoned.
     
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  5. Jan 2, 2023
    kenb

    kenb Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

    Detroit
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    I once changed a canister filter on an old engine where the PO had used a ton of silicone under the cap. That tells me they might be leak prone. I think the easiest way to address your concern is to change the oil and filter.
     
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  6. Jan 2, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Very likely one of those. First thing to find out.

    Have you tried just tightening the canister lid? Or opening the canister and inspecting the seal? Then change it out or at least reset it with enough torque on the top bolt.

    As for other "gaskets failing" that would be highly unusual - but if the PO used silicone/RTV or didn't torque things properly, all bets are off.

    Excess crankcase pressure seems unlikely since the filler tube vents into the air cleaner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
    HellaSlow likes this.
  7. Jan 2, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Define leak. Puddle on the floor, or slight wetness?

    Remember this is an antique vehicle. Standards have changed.
     
  8. Jan 2, 2023
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    How much if any oil is actually on the Fram canister ?
    Is oil coming out of the back of the oil bath filter and is oil blowing out from under the oil fill cap ?
    I can’t see where all the leaks are and how bad but…
    It certainly looks like it’s mainly a problem caused by crankcase back pressure.
    The pcv is certainly messed up and that is the cause.
    There were three different pcv systems used on these Jeeps and yours is not plumbed correctly.
    Yes due yo your valve cover design,your particular system needs a dual action fuel pump.
     
  9. Jan 2, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Sorry, don't understand.

    Why wouldn't the manifold vacuum suffice, without the pump? Don't the pumps actually dump into the manifold line?

    And how would there be excess crankcase pressure when the filler tube plumbing seems to be open to the air cleaner? Unless there is a badly blown piston or such.
     
  10. Jan 2, 2023
    kenb

    kenb Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

    Detroit
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    I agree with Pete. The double action fuel pump helps the wiper motor but does not aid in crankcase ventilation. I think the oil filter needs to be changed and that seal checked before anything else.
     
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  11. Jan 2, 2023
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    There were 3 different valve covers designed for this engine. Each cover design required a specific ventilation configuration. His valve cover design is fully closed and non vented.
    Yes the crankcase pressure goes toward the manifold via the tube located at side of manifold.
    Crankcase pressure is supposed to exit the pcv. Willys actually somewhat inadvertently invented the pcv systems. Prior to that all engines ran downdraft tubes which release excess crank pressure direct to the atmosphere.
    Not having the pump hooked up; the pcv is incomplete and allows excess pressure inside the crankcase.
    The excess pressure tries to exit the oil filler tube cap.
    The rubber seal at the oil fill does not allow enough pressure to escape so excess pressure goes back toward the oil bath air cleaner where it makes a mess as it blows out the air filter intake.
    The pcv itself is a simple one way valve.
    It allows pressure to escape but not enter the crankcase.
    The dual action pump functions as an air pump. Not a vaccum. It pumps air into the manifold via the tube.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
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  12. Jan 2, 2023
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    My jeeps have always leaked more oil than that for sure.
     
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  13. Jan 2, 2023
    SIDSCJ

    SIDSCJ Jeep addict

    14th State
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    Wherever the leak is, the engine fan is blowing it in all the places you listed.
    Start it and run it and observe for leaks while running, I would also rev it a bit as it may not leak much at idle.
     
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  14. Jan 2, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    When I look at the pictures I see a rubber hose from the oil filler, to the air cleaner. Meant for clean intake air to the crankcase, but won't that release any crankcase pressure even without a working PCV?
     
  15. Jan 2, 2023
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yes like I said crankcase pressure tries to exit the oil fill tube. It will exit at the cap if not sealed. Then It goes up the air filter bypass hose direct into the filter where it blows oil through the air filter mesh and out the intake holes of the filter body (making a mess on the firewall)
    He circled his firewall and that’s what I’m seeing.
     
  16. Jan 2, 2023
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2024 Sponsor

    Burbank, CA
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    The oil spray on the firewall left an air cleaner shaped silhouette on the firewall which is why i thought it was coming from the oil filter itself and not the air cleaner. I forgot to attach this photo yesterday. as you can see, the spray is on the air cleaner, the firewall (on both sides of the air cleaner), the underside of the iur intake (but only the oil filter side of the of the ribbing), and the top of the generator.


    Please note, Im a NOVICE and am still learning so I need explicit direction as to what to do haha. Thank you for your patience with me as I learn!

    I will be changing the oil and filter asap and all the hoses etc too since they are 10 years old now.

    What does "bolt holes are pulled" mean? Like not tightened enough? Or Stripped?

    There was a substantial amount of oil on the firewall facing side of the fram. and also dripping down the bottom hose from it. Currently theres about 1/2oz of oil on the floor of my garage from the residual drippage. Its been parked for a few days in the aftermath and not been started again till I figure this all out.
    There was NO oil behind the air cleaner on the firewall. Just a silhouette of oil from the fram spraying on it.
    I will be ordering a replacement PCV from kaiserwillys in my next order. (just incase). How should I be plumbing it?
    For the fuel pump...I will not be using vacuum wipers. Does that matter? Will I still need the double action? If so, How to I cap the excess tubing on the pump?

    THANK YOU GUYS SOOOO MUCH FOR LEANING INTO THIS QUESTION AND HELPING!!! I'm super excited to learn and get this beautiful jeep back on the road!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
  17. Jan 2, 2023
    HellaSlow

    HellaSlow Member 2024 Sponsor

    Burbank, CA
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    There is about 1/2 oz on the floor from this residual spray. There is also a ton of oil on the topside of the oil pan and seepage around the other gaskets. Ive only had the jeep a week so i'm not sure what came from this incident or what was there beforehand.
     
  18. Jan 2, 2023
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Old time is correct most of the oil is being blown out of the oil bath air cleaner due to excessive crankcase pressure. Also leaking from the oil filter canister lid .
     
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  19. Jan 2, 2023
    boopiejones

    boopiejones I can’t drive 55

    California east bay
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    I’d have someone else sit in the driver seat and operate the throttle while I watch for oil leaks/spray.

    I don’t have any experience with the specific canister filter you have, but I have a 1968 MGB with a canister filter and it is extremely finicky with torque settings. anything less than 15 lb-ft or more than 17 lb-ft and it leaks like a sieve.
     
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  20. Jan 2, 2023
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Many of mine are 50 and 60 years old. Age is not the issue as much as quality. Many newer parts are lower quality.

    So I would not automatically replace anything just because it is "old." Just the opposite in many cases.
     
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