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proportioning valves- What makes em tick

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by caveman, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Mar 13, 2007
    caveman

    caveman New Member

    Granite City, IL
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    I have a couple of questions about proportioning valves that I have been pondering.
    It started with an issue on a 78 CJ5 I bought last year that I have been working on. After I drive it a while the brakes seem to be holding, like the proportioning valve isn't allowing the brake fluid pressure to bleed back off, and keeping the calipers clamped. If I open the bleeders for the front discs momentarily, it relieves the pressure and works great again for a hundred miles or so. I assume it is the proportioning valve causing the problem.
    So, my first question is, what is inside the valve that could cause this (how does it work)? Can it be cleaned; blow compressed air through it and it will be OK? Or would that toast some delicate mechanism inside?
    2nd, my manual says that to bleed the brakes, you have to depress a button on the valve. This doesn’t make sense to me, as the fluid has to pass through it all the time, or the brakes wouldn't work. So what’s the point of holding the button in?
    Can anyone shed some light on these mysteries?
    Thanks.
     
  2. Mar 13, 2007
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,706
    Sounds like a residual pressure valve. Have you gone to disk brakes? If so you need to remove the residual pressure valve and put in a 2lb unit. Drum breaks use a 10lb unit.
     
  3. Mar 13, 2007
    caveman

    caveman New Member

    Granite City, IL
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    Stock disc brakes on the front drums on back, stock master cylinder.
     
  4. Mar 14, 2007
    John Strenk

    John Strenk Member

    Shalersville, Ohio
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    112
    Have you got the brake lines on the MC hooked up right? The front chamber goes to the rear and is much smaller than the rear chamber that goes to the front brakes this is because as the pads on the front wear, extra fluid is needed to bake up the space behind the piston.
    [​IMG]

    Anyway here is a "Combination valve" as it has a 2 stage propotioning valve, safety valve and front metering section. The safety valve moves back and forth to cut off the sections of the brakes that have lost pressure. This allows the remaing section of brakes to still operate.
    [​IMG]
    The proportioning system in the rear is two staged to ive you different braking characteristics under a normal braking situation and an emergency situation.
    Also since the rear shoes pull away from the drum, the combination valve has to delay the front brakes until the rear engage. Then you need less pressure for drum brakes then you do for disks and the rear has less weight during braking. so you have to cut down the amount of pressure going to the rear by a certian "proportion" Thus the name.

    There is a tool for pushing or pulling the "pin"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  5. Mar 14, 2007
    caveman

    caveman New Member

    Granite City, IL
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    Good info John. It looks like the brake lines are routed correctly to the MC. But as I look at it again, I'm wondering if the PO put the correct MC on. It looks fairly new. Jeff may be on to something, I assumed it was stock. Is there any way to tell if it is the MC is for front drums or discs? I think one was standard and the other optional on the 78s.
     
  6. Mar 14, 2007
    John Strenk

    John Strenk Member

    Shalersville, Ohio
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    112
    IF both resivors are the same size then it's for drums/drums if one is bigger than the other then it's for disk/drums
     
  7. Mar 14, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,275
    Don't overlook the obvious! If you haven't replaced all of the rubber hoses in your braking system, then that would be a good place to start. The rubber hoses will break down and swell internally, allowing brake fluid to pass in one direction but not in the other. Keep in mind that the pressure on the hydraulic system is much, much higher when braking then what is applied by the return springs in the drum setup; with discs there is no spring at all!

    I like to replace the entire hydraulic system in a vehicle that has been sitting for more than a short while. ( 4-6 months ) I like to think of it as cheap insurance..
     
  8. Mar 15, 2007
    wally

    wally SSSSTER

    upper merrimack...
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    554
    that seems a little overboard. my jeep sits for 4 or 5 months during the winter, but i surely don't replace the entire system every spring.
     
  9. Mar 18, 2007
    caveman

    caveman New Member

    Granite City, IL
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    All of the brake lines are less than 5 years old, per the PO. While its possible, I really don't think they are the problem.
    Do the valves themselves go bad very often?
     
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