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Mission Impossible 1956 Cj5 Basket Case.

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Rodney, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. Mar 17, 2022
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    Wow, impressive fabrication!
     
    Rodney likes this.
  2. Mar 17, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

    Sierra Foothills
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    Thanks
     
  3. Mar 17, 2022
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    That is sweet and the 435 is the nicest shifter of the truck trannies. You could sell those. Nice short adapter..
     
    Rodney likes this.
  4. Mar 30, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

    Sierra Foothills
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    I dove into the tranny swap today. I pulled the top cover plate on the floors, and then removed all the shift levers. I then went underneath the Jeep and removed both drive shafts, the exhaust Y pipe, and then hung the Trans/T/C with an angle bracket and overhead chain hoist. And removed the crossmember
    Laying on the floor side by side you can see the difference between the Mustang Close Ratio 4 speed mated to the Dana 18, and the Ford NP435 mated to the Land Rover LT230 T/C
    I then drug the NP435 under the Jeep and balanced it with a chain sling and hoisted it up in place complete Trans & T/C. I never did pull the bell housing. I just made sure that I had positive pressure on the throw out bearing to pressure plate, and carefully
    re-installed it. It fits!!! It's a tight fit, but it's in there. the brake drum backing plate has about 1/4" clearance to the frame boxing.
    Tomorrow I will work on the cross member and side mounts. The Land Rover case in mounted on each side instead of the Tranny in the middle, with a passenger side T/C torque pad. Both drive shafts will have to be shortened and the exhaust Y pipe modified. It seems when you change one thig, 6 more need to modified also.
     
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  5. Apr 4, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I have been loosly following your build, then just caught up. I hadn’t seen your transmission change to the NP435. Even more interesting is your choice to use the Rover transfer case. These are not typical transfer cases we Jeepers are used to. I’ve been playing with Land Rovers for well over 15 years, so I know a bit about them.
    The LT230 is somewhat similar to the mid-‘70s original Jeep Quadratrac/BW1339 in as much as it has a differential between the front and rear outputs. The Quadratrac is chain drive and the LT230 is gear drive. The center differential in both divides power to where the most bias is needed, either front or rear axle, though both are always driven. This is a full-time 4 wheel drive system that needs drive flanges up front, not locking hubs (same as Jeep’s Quadratrac). These both have a lever to “lock” the center diff if needed, but they perform best unlocked. This “divided” power to the ground is superior in off-road situations over more conventional straight drive systems.
    Another quirk of the LT230 is there are about 6 or 8 high range ratios, depending on the vehicle/engine application. Low range ratios are all around 3.32 as you are aware.
    I believe only the Range Rover has a 1:1 high range ratio like a D18 or D20 has (or about every domestic transfer case). Modern Land Rover vehicles nearly all come standard with a 3.54 axle ratio (Old Series 88/109s had lower gears) which sound pretty tall for an off-road vehicle, so they alter the effective ratio in the transfer case. In your case, borrowing an LT230 from a Disco, that should have a 1.22 high range ratio (probably tagged as a 28D if a Disco l?). If that is the case, thats about an 18% reduction in your final drive. This makes your 3.54 axles drive RPM-wise like they are closer to 4.30 gears in a 1:1 top gear situation. I have 1:1, 1.22:1, 1.4:1, and 1.66:1 ratio LT230s in my collection, so I have done some effective gear calculations. I think your donor vehicle might be a Disco ll from the small lug pattern spare wheel. This means you might have a 1.20 (?) high range ratio, pretty close to my calculations above.
    Your donor Disco likely had a ZF 4 spd automatic with a .73 overdrive 4th gear, so it wasn’t like running those 4.30 gears unless you kept it locked in 3rd gear.
    For the Jeep you are building, the transfer case ratio from your donor Disco should get you pretty reasonable high range gears, especially if you start in 2nd gear rather than the 6:1 granny low/1st. When you need the granny, its there, and then there’s the superior 3.32 low range. Just keep the drive flanges up front, otherwise you will burn up the transfer case. With a healthy 302 for power, you will likely need to upgrade that front driveshaft on the rear axle, though.
    The Brits have been swapping around these LT230s for decades in their Rovers, and there are a bunch of aftermarket gears and ratios from companies like Ashcroft. You should be good with what you have, and nice job adapting it to the NP435. I already have a Dodge NP435/NP203 that will likely find its way into my Willys Wagon, but I have a line on another 2wd NP435, so your adapter is interesting.
    I would have just sectioned/shortened the Disco coiler chassis to build your Jeep rather than modifying the Willys frame. I’m lengthening a Disco chassis about 5” to make a coiler Willys Wagon.
    -Donny
     
  6. Apr 4, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

    Sierra Foothills
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    Thanks for commenting!
    This isn't my first Rodeo with Willys and Rover Axles/Transfer case conversion. I have a 63 Wagon with the Open Knuckle wider Disco 2 Axles, LT230 transfer case, divorced with a Ford 302 and 5 speed. In the Wagon I used leaf springs in the rear, but used the coils up front. The CJ has the Disco 1 Closed knuckle front and full floater rear axles which are 100 MM narrower than the Disco 2 with the weird large bolt pattern on the wheels. The wagon has been together and an (8 Day Clock) for 6 years.
     
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  7. Apr 6, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    I got the NP435 and matted LT230 Rover transfer case installed. I hate doing things over, but in this case going from a Close Ratio Car 4 speed to a 6.69-1 Granny low truck 4 speed was a no brainer. The floor cover plate had me concerned. I didn't want to start all over and I didn't have another piece of 1/4" T6 aluminum that big.[​IMG][​IMG] The plate got a new hole cut for the shift tower of the NP435
    . Then a new Dorman Freightliner Boot from Amazon for $20.00 with free shipping and a piece of aluminum trim, some drilling and tapping holes and the cover is done.
    The Hurst 4 speed shifter hole and boot worked well for the Land Rover Parking Brake handle and cable.
    All in all I think it looks better and more complete than before. Tomorrow The T/C get 2 1/2 quarts of 80-90 gear lube. the rear drive shaft gets installed and with a little luck, I'll take it for another road test.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  8. Apr 8, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    I got the rear drive shaft installed. It's interesting that with the coil springs, the rear control arms pivot very close the where the driveshaft pivots at the T/C. First picture is normal ride height.
    Next is at full drop with the axle hanging from the shocks.
    There is almost no difference in the amount of slip yoke showing. I added gear oil to the T/C and fired up the 5.0l Ford and went for a drive. 2-3-4 shifts great and quiet. but Granny low and reverse whined and howled and made a terrible noise. My wife came across the yard as I drove back in the driveway, with a hang dog look about her. I went back and forth from High Range to Low and Lock and nothing in the T/C made a difference. Even with the T/C in neutral the transmission ground and whirred in Low and Revers. I told my wife that it sounded like a bolt was to long and rubbing on the reverse/low gear idler. "Right she said, sounds really bad to me". When I built the adapters for the Land Rover LT230 T/C I made a new rear bearing retainer for the NP435.
    It's held on with four 1/2" bolts threaded into the back of the Transmission case. With the top off the tranny you can see that 3 of the bolts could be an inch too long and not hurt anything. But the bottom driver side bolt is critical. when the Low/Revers idler is shifted to the rear of the case, it actually sits in a recess, and that one bolt was maybe 1 mm too long. In the next picture you can see on the bottom gear second tooth from the right the bolt head just making contact with the gear.
    I was able to slide the gear forward and reach in with an air die grinder with a 1 1/4' x 1/2" grinding stone and grind down the head of the bolt. I washed the tranny out with diesel fuel and ATF, and I will change it again in a week or so. I drove it again with the floor pan off and all is good.
    It's hard to explain how much better the Jeep perform with the NP435 than it did with the Rug Mustang Close Ratio 4 speed. If I was doing Sand Drags it might be a great combination.
     
  9. Apr 19, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

    Sierra Foothills
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    I felt that I needed a pair of cup holders and wanted to keep with the aluminum look of everything else on the center tunnel I started with more of the same 1/4" t6 plate and drilled a pair of 3 " holes.
    I then used a piece of 1 1/4" x 3" rectangle stock for the base.
    with stainless steel Philips screws and lock nuts, it all went together.
    I used a pair of Dollar Store plastic cup holders that had hooks for hanging them over a glove box door. With a
    little trim work, they fit right in. They fit my Wife's favorite Tehava Tea and regular Coke/Beer cans.
    I guess the center cover plate looks finished now.
     
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  10. May 17, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    Another milestone today. The CHP Vin verification Officer came to my house today and did the CJ5. Before he left, he ask if I wanted to sell it and how much. He said he really liked it and wanted to buy it. Not For Sell Yet.
     
  11. May 24, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    I'm off to the DMV this morning to pay Ca. for the privilege of driving on our terrible roads. I hope I have all my I's dotted and t's crossed. I was told by a member of the Old Willys Forum that I should "Burn Incense and Sacrifice a Goat'!
     
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  12. May 24, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    Got it! Wild Wilhemena is Registered ($123.00) and Insured for the first time in 30+ years.
     
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  13. May 24, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    Time to take it out and play with it.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  14. May 26, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    The first LEGAL trip today with the 56 CJ5. I drove to the local Food Pantry where I volunteer on Thursday mornings. Everyone thought it was overheating. I had a minor drip from one of the fittings on the brake master cylinder. Of course it was dripping right on the hot exhaust header and smoking like a train.
    Just another twist with a wrench and it stopped.
     
  15. Jun 1, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

    Sierra Foothills
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    Some finishing touches. My Daughter In Law made me a set of Hood Decals for Christmas last year and I just now got around to installing them. I had driven to the Post Office and the hood was quite warm, so the decals went on nice and smooth and stuck well.
     
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  16. Jun 2, 2022
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    Do you have the brand of the turn signal, i realy like them
     
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  17. Jun 2, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  18. Jun 2, 2022
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    Thank you, i ordered the one with the smoke lens
     
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  19. Jun 2, 2022
    NVBORN

    NVBORN New Member

    Sparks,NV
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    I just looked through your build thread. Nice work!
     
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  20. Jun 3, 2022
    Rodney

    Rodney Member

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    Cool. Be careful and don't tighten them too tight.
     
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