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Wheel Options / Research For Resto-mod

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by truckee4x4, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. Mar 5, 2021
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Trying to gather some information on options for this piece of my puzzle and wanted to ask the experts.

    Here's where I am at:
    • I modified my front axle to now include disc brakes.
    • Running Warn M2 hubs.
    • Added a 2" Rough Country suspension lift kit.
    • Currently the chassis is rolling on 33x10.5 R15" BFG Mud Terrains on white Wagon Wheels that someone (me) thought were cool in 2008 when it was my daily driver before it got torn apart. My eventual plan is to downsize the tires and try to find something else that works with my build.

    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_7328.jpg

    • Last year, I was gifted by a very very nice person (wife) this incredible set of OEM NOS hubcaps:
    NOS Kaiser Hubcaps.jpeg

    I am not very knowledgeable in this area of vehicles. What options do I need to look at to make all of this fit and work on one wheel?

    I think I need:
    • A 5x5.5 bolt pattern
    • A 4.25" center hole
    • 15" diameter.
    What kind of backspacing do I need to accommodate the disc brakes? Will I be able to find something that meets all of the above, yet allows me to secure the hubcaps, or will that be a custom fabrication situation? Is this even possible? Thanks!
     
  2. Mar 5, 2021
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member

    So.Cal
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    I find that i'm considering a similar situation if I install my N/T dana 30 and do a disk brake swap in the rear. i think I'm leaning towards keeping my 16" KH wheels and just running quality spacers like Spidertrax or similar.

    For you, I think it would be:
    (4) 15" original stock KH or aftermarket stock rims with hubcab nubs
    (4) wheel spacers (1.25-1.50")
    (4) hub caps (already procured)

    Lots of race and off-road folks use spacer/adapters with very little issue on lightweight rigs like ours, so for me, as long as the tires clear my fenders, I see these benefits:

    1. Widened stance provides more sidehill stability
    2. Disc brake stopping power
    3. Reduced complexity by removing drums
    4. Retain vintage look (important to me)
    5. For myself, the Dana30 adds strength, parts availability, locker, availability, decreased turning radius, etc, etc.
     
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  3. Mar 6, 2021
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks @Bigdaddy13. Couple of questions.

    1) For wheels, do these look like an option?

    Steel Wheels | Coker Tire®

    2) Can someone post up a few pictures of what the actual stock OEM 1966 Tuxedo Park Wheels with the hubcap nubs would look like?

    3) Did they use clips like these at K-W:

    Hub Cap Retainer Spring Clip Fits 46-55 Jeepster, Station Wagon with Planar Suspension

    4) What is the application of these? I can't recall seeing them on any original TPIV ppics I have saved over the years.
    (20) NOS Jeep Trim Ring CLIPS | Jeepster Commando | Wagoneer | CJ5 Tuxedo Park | eBay

    5) For spacers - I've not been a fan of Chinese-made Rugged Ridge stuff. KW has these in 1.25":
    1.25 Inch Wheel Spacer Kit Fits 41-71 MB, GPW, CJ-2A, 3A, 3B, 5, M38, M38A1

    I found these on Summit - would it be wiser to look at these and get an extra 0.5"?
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rto-rt32005/make/jeep

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  4. Mar 6, 2021
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member

    So.Cal
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    Those coker wheels are nice. If i recall correctly the ford-style wheels are the same bolt pattern but the center hole is a bit too small. Not sure if all those have that issue.

    if i remember center bores correctly:

    Ford = 3.75ish,
    jeep = 4.25”/108mm (double check me though)
     
  5. Mar 6, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    I asked Coker - they are 4.25”
     
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  6. Mar 6, 2021
    Bigdaddy13

    Bigdaddy13 Member

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    those should work, bore/bolt pattern-wise. Not sure on backspacing measurements.
     
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  7. Mar 7, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    '
    Specifically these:

    15x8" / 4.25" center bore, and 4.0" backspacing
    15x10" / 4.25" center bore, and 4.5" backspacing.

    They are a custom made-to-order, and shipping is $300 (yikes!).

    I'd love to have the opinion of the experts @timgr or @Warloch and/or someone else from the Tux fleet (@Beach66Bum?) about how the hubcaps/clips work and whether they would be an option with these wheels? Coker says the accept Ford hubcaps from the period but with a 10.125" diameter. My caps are packed away in winter storage so I'd need to dig them out to measure.
     
  8. Mar 7, 2021
    48cj2a

    48cj2a http://bantamt3c.com

    Central Illinois
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    Love the classic hub simplicity!
     
  9. Mar 8, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    If you intend to use the stock hubcaps, you first need to know what diameter they are. There were two sizes back in the Kaiser Jeep era these are from, large Jeep (trucks) and small Jeep (Cj and Jeepsters). The larger diameter measure around 10 1/2" id, and the smaller ones are approx 10 1/4-3/8 id. Wagoneers from that era seem to used either size.
    You will need factory rims that have the "nubs". The Kaiser-era Jeep rims have 3 nubs and generally fit the smaller sized hubcaps. These are 5 1/2" wide measured at the beads.
    If you have the larger diameter hubcaps, you will need a 4 nub rim from the AMC-era which can be either 5 1/2" or 6" wide.
    The hubcaps are designed to "snap" over the nubs of the factory wheel.

    In the late '50s/early '60s, Willys wagons, like the Maverick, had rims with 3 small rectangular slots where a spring clip snapped into the slot to retain hubcaps. These rims are pretty scarce, and I have never tried to see if your style hubcap will work with them. I think the old "W" logo hubcaps were a larger diameter.
    All of the rims described above are factory OEM so are the correct lug pattern and have the correct center hole size.
    -Donny
     
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  10. Mar 8, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    Cheers Donny thanks for all this info.

    I dug one out and pulled a tape across it and it measures 10-3/8". Guessing this means that the Coker rims are not going to accept them right out of the box?

    I wonder if anyone has ever fabricated a means of welding onto these nubs and then machining them down to allow the caps to snap over them? Probably beyond my fabrication skills and I would certainly worry about losing them on a trail. I bet it's impossible to find the factory rims, and they wouldn't accept my disc brakes anyway.
     
  11. Mar 9, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I can't comment on the Coker wheels because they aren't OEM Jeep rims. They are (from the photos you linked) a 3 nub rim made to accept a hubcap just like the OEM rim does, but I can't determine the "diameter" of those nubs. It might be helpful if you could try one of your hubcaps on a 3 nub and a 4 nub factory Jeep rim to determine proper fit. It sounds like purchasing a wheel from Coker to try fitting one of your hubcaps, as well as overall fit/backspacing on your application, is not practical.
    Your hubcaps should snap over the retaining nubs quite snugly with no looseness when in place. They need to be pried off with a large screwdriver or "blade" end of a lug wrench. The hubcap actually stretches/springs a bit as it snaps on.
    There is a chance that your hubcaps will work correctly with the Coker rims if the spacing of the nubs is correct.

    The nubs on both the Coker rims and OEM Jeep rims are stamped/formed as a part of the rim, not attached by welding. As far as trying to weld the early retaining clips to make them work, I don't think this is an option. The original spring clips are tempered spring steel that will lose their "spring" temper with the heat of welding. Some early British sports cars used this same type hucap retention system, with 3 pointed studs riveted on the face of the rim. Triumph TR3 (disc wheels) was an example of this. In theory, these Triumph studs could be welded to a rim, but getting the proper spacing and centering them would be impractical. Try a Coker rim. You might get lucky!
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  12. Mar 9, 2021
    GillaFunk

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  13. Mar 9, 2021
    iharding

    iharding Quitter

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    It's definitely too hard. Stick with the white spokes and send me those hubcaps.
     
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  14. Mar 9, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    Haha classic! Well I’m going to try and make them work, but in the event that I fail, you can be first in line when I offload them to someone with OEM rims.
     
  15. Mar 10, 2021
    Keys5a

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    Those custom made-to-order rims might be made by Stockton Wheel, or at least Stockton custom makes essentially the same wheel, 20 Series. They're in Stockton, CA, maybe only about 100 miles from you. It might be worth a trip down to see them, and see if your hubcaps fit any of their rims.
    -Donny
     
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  16. Apr 28, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    After well over a month of trying to get someone at Stockton Wheel to answer the phone or email, I finally got a hold of someone there yesterday to talk about possibly having them make wheels for me so I can run both my tires and my dog dish hubcaps.

    I understand the hubcaps are not OEM on my Tux, but I have them and I want to try and run them and not spend $800+ on new tires with Coker rims that may or may not fit the hubcaps. I also will probably never find correct Turbine hubcaps in this lifetime!

    Eric @ Stockton told me they have the parts to make a 15x8" wheel, 5x5.5" bolt pattern, 4.25" center bore, with nubs that accept Jeep OEM dog dish hubcaps, but that I'd need to bring down the hubcaps so they could confirm the fitment. He said the backspacing could be 3.75" or possibly even 3.5" if I wanted to move the wheel further out. Cost would be $175 a wheel, and they are a couple months out. The reason no one has been answering the phone is that their office is still not staffed because of COVID and won't re-open until June.

    The "Wagon Wheel" white spoke US Wheels on the Jeep right now are 15x8" with 3.75" backspacing and they do go over the front disc brakes. I pretty much think I either go with Stockton Wheel, or I tear the disc brakes off and replace with Sam (PartsDude4x4) custom kit that fits OEM wheels, and then find some of those. Which would be going backwards and would be $$$$.

    Can you guys think of a reason why a 15x8" wheel with 3.5" backspacing would not work?
     
  17. Apr 28, 2021
    Lockman

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    .25 ?
    Sorry , I couldn't help that ........:lol:
    How much clearance do you have now ? I seriously think you could crawl under & check your Disc caliper to existing wheel spacing now. If they're clearing now , by let's say, just over 3/8 of an inch, You would be good to go with 3.5 ". Or just have Stocktons build your new wheels with 3.75" backspacing, that you know will fit your Calipers. ? Under $ 800 for custom wheels sounds like kinda a bargain, these days ?
    I'm pullin' for ya.
     
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  18. Apr 28, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    It's Ok - I'm learning as I go so this terminology is all new to me. I'm just a photographer...

    I think I currently have enough clearance, but am I measuring in the right place?

    Here's some photos.
    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_77ac.jpg UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_77ab.jpg UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_77ae.jpg
     
  19. Apr 28, 2021
    Lockman

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    Looks to me that your Caliper clears your existing wheel by a good amount at the perimeter & the backspace. Order the same size from Stockton's, then you will not need wheel spacers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  20. Apr 29, 2021
    truckee4x4

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    Thanks @Lockman. I was thinking that moving the tires 0.25" out by having wheels made with less backspacing would help with my current suspension configuration and buy me a little more room between the springs and the tires at full steering lock. Guess you're saying that 0.25" doesn't really matter? This Jeep will not be a crawler - just a forest road cruiser.

    I haven't yet adjusted anything (Camber, toe-in, tie rods etc.) completely, and the engine weight isn't on the chassis yet. I may also have to revert to the OEM shock plates as it looks to me like the Warrior Products ones I installed move the shock mounting bolt too far outwards compared to the OEM ones.

    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_6426.jpg
    UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_6431.jpg
     
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