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Power Steering With A Ross Box & Pto Winch

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Howard Eisenhauer, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Sep 29, 2021
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Very nice work and documentation.:bow:
     
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  2. Sep 29, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Member: Club Foot Dad Club. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Very nice,

    Now for the hydroboost brakes!
     
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  3. Sep 30, 2021
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    :clap:Another useful power steering thread!

    I tried using the 2 hole knuckle on my jeep (D30 version) and I wasn't able to steer lock to lock fully. Maybe it is because the D30 has more steering travel?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
  4. Sep 30, 2021
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    another thread that needs to go to technical section
    nice work (y)
     
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  5. Sep 30, 2021
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Wow , Howard. Excellent project detail.
    I agree with moving this to the Technical section , to be preserved for generations to come !.
    I also agree with the Hydroboost Brake suggestion . Best system ever & Tonk would love it.
    ....Richie
     
  6. Sep 30, 2021
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Grant Kaye 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Amazing project Howard! Congrats. Hope you can dial it in to perfection soon.
     
  7. Sep 30, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    FWIW I measured 8" of rod travel on both cylinders, of course on my setup I can adjust where the cylinder connects to the tierod to center the rod travel.

    I looked at using the center TRE for use on the single hole knuckle, to me it looks like the taper on the hole is "backwards" from what I needed but people have made these work somehow. I have found the GM/Chev square body trucks used these things as well & come in left & right versions, one of those may work well with a single hole.

    EDIT: Apparently the RH tierod end from a '70-ish Commando is the hot ticke if you're using a single hole knuckle-

    http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/150223/#post-1698507
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  8. Sep 30, 2021
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Great job Howard!
     
  9. Sep 30, 2021
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I had to do a Y link setup on my jeep. The issue is, the center to center on the bell crank to the tie rod end is shorter than the center to center of the ball joint to the outer hole of the passenger knuckle. Sure, those ratios increase leverage, but it reduces travel. That is also why I used a v6 box, for more leverage.
     
  10. Sep 30, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    A lot of 60's Ramblers used 11/16-18 and the same taper.
     
  11. Sep 30, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm having trouble visualizing this in my, admittedly frazzled, brain :(

    Can you whip up a diagram to help explain?
     
  12. Sep 30, 2021
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Nice work there Howard.
    Another possible donor pump is the generator driven unit used on Jaguar sedans in the mid/late 1960's. Might be as hard to find as the the Packard slave.
    Additionally, Subaru used an early electric power steering pump in the XT6 model from '86-'91. Its probably overly complex, requiring both a light beam/chopper wheel sensor in the steering column, and an electronic processing box/computer to control it.
    The reletive simplicity of the Saginaw conversion makes it the most popular choice, but they are also quite effective leaving the pump out of the equation and just looping a hose on the box. These just don't leave much room for your PTO winch.
    -Donny
     
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  13. Oct 1, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    There's certainly no arguing that the Saggy swap is effective, but they're not for everyone. The main selling point for a Saginaw is that eliminates a number of wear points that plague the stock linkage but a well built & maintained Ross system steers as well as anything else. With the tight steer, the cone bearing bellcrank & the power assist I expect Tonk's steering system will stay tight for a long long time to come.

    Also the Saginaw is not a trivial exercise; stock, or at least relatively stock, CJ's are getting fewer and fewer- in the long run I think the frame hacks required for the Saginaw conversion will hurt a vehicle's value. :(

    Now of course the "Corvette" system is not exactly a one day bolt on exercise but if your Ross system is in relatively good shape- i.e. good sector shaft, bushings & bellcrank bearings, I see it as a bit simpler exercise than the Saginaw. Both require some mounts fabbed & installed, both require some tie rod changes, both require obtaining & mounting a pump but the 'vette doesn't need the steering column mods, fabricating the column to gearbox linkage or, GRRRR UGH-, chopping a hole in the crossmember.

    And of course the Vetty works better for the winch setup. :)

    I think we could have a really fun drunken, ..., umm ... "discussion" over the pros & cons of each approach some time, any good bars in the keys? :D

    As for the Jag combo I'd have to obtain a Whitworth to SAE voltage/current converter- they're getting hard to find & pricey.

    [​IMG]

    Also it's my understanding the smoke recharge kits aren't on the market anymore :(

    [​IMG]


    Also converting Tonk to positive ground would turn him to rust in no time flat. :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  14. Oct 1, 2021
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    This is what I was talking about. The ratio of x on the knuckle to the bell crank is 1:1. By using the outer hole, the leverage is increased, but the travel is decreased. That was my problem. So I went with a y-link setup and it solved my problem.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Oct 1, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So you were running out of travel on the steering box? What sort of axle do you have?
     
  16. Oct 2, 2021
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    :D
     
  17. Oct 2, 2021
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Point Taken :)

    How many turns does your steering wheel go lock to lock?
     
  18. Oct 2, 2021
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    I'll have to check.
     
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