1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Flat Towing With Tow Bar. Bad Idea?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 68CJ-5, May 30, 2023.

  1. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    I bought my CJ with the idea that it would be like the Toyota 4-Runners that I've owned in the past; that I could just drive them to where I wanted to hunt, fish, or play, do lots of offroad stuff, and drive them home, hundreds of miles if need be.

    Quickly learned my CJ isn't the candidate for that. 225 oddfire, 4 speed manual trans, Toyota axles, etc.

    The motor can probably handle the miles just fine, but the newest drive train components are probably the Toyota axles from the early 80's, which I have no concerns about. But the transfer case and tranny do concern me as far as running tons of miles, and I've surrendered to the idea that I'm just going to have to tow it to wherever I plan to play, if it's more than around 50 miles from home.

    I really didn't want to be driving two vehicles everywhere I wanted to go wheeling, but after watching tons of YouTube videos, particularly Matt's Off Road Recovery, I've kind of gotten used to the idea.

    But I'm trying to avoid buying yet another trailer and possibly a heavier tow-rig just to use my Jeep offroad. I have two boats on trailers in addition to my utility trailer. Too many trailers already. I first brought it home on a U-Haul tow dolly, which worked fine other than having to extend the tire straps.

    So I'm about to buy a tow bar to mount to the Jeep so I can pull it behind my existing rig. I'm constantly towing my utility trailer or bass boat behind the van, so no worries there. I'm just wondering about tow bar issues themselves.

    Also wondering if there are any issues to the drive train components in towing the CJ. I have Toyota axles with Warn hubs up front. I just unlock the hubs and put the transfer case and transmission in neutral. Would rather not put the highway miles on my tires, but I guess that's the trade-off.

    What do you guys do? I ran a loop a couple of days ago, 80-100 miles, and all was well. I was looking for offroad areas to play, but everything I had in mind now has locked gates (public land). Very frustrating. So just to do any offroading it looks like I'll be running double the above, which I'd rather tow to than drive.

    A tow dolly might be an option, but that's 'another trailer'. I'm hoping the tow bar is the best way to go.

    Here's the CJ. It's on 35's. The steering is tight, with new shocks, etc.

    [​IMG]
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  2. May 30, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,110
    My set up since 2001
    20220731_173246.jpg

    There's LOTS of flat towing info on here if you do a search, including this-
    Flat Towing Guide | ECJ5 (earlycj5.com)

    My advice, make sure whatever you use for a tow rig is up to the task. Because there's virtually no tongue weight, you can pull a Jeep with almost anything with a hitch, but remember, you're stopping 2 vehicles with 1 set of brakes, and you also need enough weight that the Jeep doesn't wind up pushing you around.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
  3. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    Thanks again.

    I hadn't even gotten to thinking about wiring the lights yet. One more thing... I'll tackle that once I decide on the tow bar option.

    I'm not concerned about the weight itself; wasn't a problem with the tow dolly and we've towed much heavier with that rig. I made a 50-mile dump run with a 4900 lb. payload, not including the trailer weight which was probably around 800 lbs. at the time, so around 5700 lbs. in all. The CJ runs 3600 lbs., a ton less.

    I guess I'm thinking more about possible fishtailing or unwanted steering issues or the like, something that wasn't encountered with the tow dolly itself. Also, does the tire size and lift height become a problem regarding stability or steering issues?

    What about the tow bars themselves? The ones I see on Amazon and elsewhere seem pretty cheap and lightweight. Am I being too cautious?

    If I've got to pull the rear drive line, I won't do it. Full float locking rear hubs would be sweet, but I'll have to think about that one. I'd have to focus on many other things before I was ready to spend the $$ on rear locking hubs.
     
  4. May 30, 2023
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,323
    You can't back up with a tow bar, nor a car dolly (at least not very far). Always make sure you have a FORWARD way out when you park.
    Some states require brakes on the TOAD. I successfully used a Brake Buddy for years of flat towing.
    Your Jeep steering and suspension should be in top condition. If everything is correct, it will track straight and true. You won't need to tie the steering wheel either.
    BEST INFO ALREADY PUBLISHED HERE: Flat Towing Guide | ECJ5 (earlycj5.com)
    Chances are, the towed Jeep will be running faster behind the tow vehicle that it ever does under its own power. I've read horror stories of side-drive transfer cases self-destructing at high speed. You can disconnect the rear shaft at the differential. Then wrap U-joint with tape and tie it up inside the frame rail. That's what I always did, it was quick and worked great.
    Check the quality of the cheap tow bars. A $100 Harbor Freight bar is made of cast metal. You should have steel extrusion for the main bars, like a Smittybilt for $200.
    If you're not going to run brakes on the TOAD and the cheap tow bar fails in service...your pride 'n joy may go over the edge of a cliff. Don't skimp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2023
  5. May 30, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,593
    I've flat towed mine all over from Colorado to California to Utah to Montana etc using mostly a Tacoma, and now an f150...easy way to do it. I use a HF tow bar and the magnetic trailer lights. I'd probably suggest a beefier towbar, but obviously I haven't upgraded so maybe not a big concern. I always disconnect the rear driveshaft from the rear diff and strap it to the frame. It's 2 ujoint straps - so 4 nuts. I can connect and disconnect those faster than most can even get their trailer ramps out set. I don't trust the magnets on the lights so I strap those as well. There are new ones that are wireless which makes it super fast. I love the simplicity of it...
    Here is how I towed it from Colo to Utah multiple times, and to California a couple times etc:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    Koko, Ol Fogie, Snoopy and 4 others like this.
  6. May 30, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,717
    With a dana 18 you can flat towing and dolly tow with the transfercase in neutral and we typically suggest transmission in 3rd.
    The lower rotating driveline is all lubricated as normal with the dana 18 in neutral. The manual Transmissions need the input rotating to lubricate the needle bearings between the input and main shaft so direct locks them from spinning dry.

    I learnt it is best to disconnect the rear driveshaft from the axle to keep the moving parts to a minimum and windshield down saves me 12% in fuel. I've had the parking brake fail from pulling it too fast. (Over 85mph)
    I've also ran the jeep axle dry while flat towing so I hear you about wear and tear but for safety with lighter to rigs use a dolly or specialized "jeep trailer" since the tow ratings are typically limited by brakes and handling.

    The midsized trucks (Colorado, ranger, Tacoma, dakota) are minimum for flat towing due to the jeep wanting to push the rear out from under you. The suvs that share platforms with the trucks are fine.

    All the front wheel drive vehicles would be limited duty and known routes mostly because the suspension is pulling and steering with the extra load and it's really hard on the a-arms. I trashed my wagons a-arms and rotors towing our camper.
    Since then I went to a HD drilled and slotted tow/haul kit.

    For the tow bar have yourself or someone build it.
    Make it long and rigid so if the jeep tries to turn the leverage on the tow vehicle is less. I use an old U-haul tow bar and it's marginal behind a 90's ranger so i'ld say make the bar about 42" on each side and you can put a trailer coupler on for hydraulic trailer surge brakes. Then if you go disk brakesyou can completely isolate it with dedicated calipers. You could also use line locks and switch the rear axle master cylinder from pedal to hitch. I've also heard of a valve that does it aautomatically.

    For lights I have a connection mid ship for the rear lights and a jumper cord to plug the car to the jeep.

    This ranger trip was ok, slow and steady.
    [​IMG]
    This Expedition trip is way easier. This truck is 1000lbs heavier and has much better brakes than the ranger did.
    [​IMG]

    I copied most from the other thread and deleted on the other thread. Added details on lights and bar.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
  7. May 30, 2023
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    276
    I flat tow mine alot behind a f150 and it does fine. I wired the rear lights into a trailer plug in the front so I don't have to mess with magnetic lights, but I did the magnetic ones for awhile and it was easy.
    The longer and more level you can get the tow bar, the better.
     
    vtxtasy and 68CJ-5 like this.
  8. May 30, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,460
    Like James, my 3B made many a trip flat towed between Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada. This was always behind a one ton truck. I never removed the rear driveshaft. You ABSOLUTELY need to leave the transmission in gear and I always left it in first. I do not think which gear matters too much as long as it remains immobile. The transfercase obviously needs to be neutral. I also added a trailer plug to the front bumper and wired it so the Jeep tail lights worked the same as they would with a trailer.

    Having said all that, with a V6/V8, overdrive, tight suspension/steering, good brakes, and decent seats, I have piloted the 3B on a number of 600-700 mile trips. The transmission and D18 are fine with highway speed.
     
    Ol Fogie, 68CJ-5 and Tralehead like this.
  9. May 30, 2023
    amboynut

    amboynut Member

    Chelatchie, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2021
    Messages:
    310
    Did I see your Jeep in Hanksville, UT a couple weeks go?
     
  10. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    I wish. I have been through Hanksville; beautiful area! We want to plan a motorcycle club tour through that area.

    Furthest I've had this thing from home is around 50 miles so far. Still dialing things in.
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  11. May 30, 2023
    amboynut

    amboynut Member

    Chelatchie, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2021
    Messages:
    310
    Where's home?
     
  12. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    East of you, but west of Spokane, WA. Sounds like you're somewhere between Chelan and Wenatchee? I grew up on the west side, Snohomish County, and our annual vacations were up at Alta Lake and elsewhere in the wider region.
     
    Ol Fogie likes this.
  13. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    That's why I'd want to tow rather than drive. I'd be tempted to head down there and join you guys!
     
  14. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    I wanted to thank everyone for the great posts and suggestions. Processing it now.

    I can't recall which tranny I have in there. I'd have to look it up again in my records. It's a Dana 4-speed IIRC. But I wanted to ask you guys about towing it in gear.

    I put everything in neutral when I towed it home, but apparently it's better to keep those tranny gears spinning?

    With that in mind, it seems 4th gear would be most practical at highway speeds, and that 1st gear would be spinning like crazy. Some recommend 3rd, some 1st. What's the thinking behind that, and why not 4th? Seems like 4th would be putting the least amount of wear on the system.

    Also, you guys may have convinced me that unbolting the drive line might not be so bad. I've had serious issues with U-joints in the past so avoid them if at all possible.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    dnb71R2 likes this.
  15. May 30, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,593
    you don't want the trans gears spinning.....with the trans in neutral, and the D18 in nuetral, but the rear driveshaft connected (assuming the fronts have lock-outs), the D18 output shaft will spin enough to get the gear oil moving which will then get the trans gears moving (viscous coupling). But, as they won't be moving as fast as typical driving, the oiling process doesn't work and the bearings can burn up. at least that is how I understand it. If you disconnect the driveshaft, then it doesn't really matter (again, assuming the front hubs are unlocked). If you are towing with the rear driveshaft connected, then the D18 needs to be in neutral, but the trans into gear to keep it from spinning.
     
    dnb71R2 and 68CJ-5 like this.
  16. May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5

    68CJ-5 Had to get away

    Gone
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2023
    Messages:
    123
    Yeah, yeah, OK; got it. I had things reversed in my mind. Thanks!
     
  17. May 30, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,460
    With the transmission in neutral, the mainshaft will be turning with that viscous coupling. The mainshaft normally gets lubed by the cluster gear turning in the bottom of the case and that doesn't happen in this situation so the mainshaft bearings go sans lube.
     
  18. May 30, 2023
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,110
    I never tow mine faster than 65 mph.
    As far as disconnecting the driveshaft...whenever I'm going to the central CO mountains (Leadville, Breckenridge etc) that's 100 miles +/- and I just throw the tcase in neutral and go. When I go to Durango, around 300 miles, I will pull the rear driveshaft. Why? I can't really say, it just makes me feel better for those longer trips.
    Also, my personal preference is to remove the driveshaft completely, I don't have to worry about it coming loose, or losing a ujoint cap. Plus when I get to my destination I can move the jeep if need be before re-installing the driveshaft.
     
    vtxtasy, 68CJ-5, Jw60 and 1 other person like this.
  19. May 30, 2023
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,323
    One last thing to keep in mind...when the D18 is shifted into neutral, the front and rear driveshafts are coupled (unless you have removed interlock pills). This means that both driveshafts and both axles are turning during flat tow. Even if the hubs are unlocked, the differential and front axle shafts are turning at the same speed of the rear axle.
    Keeping a moderate highway speed is good, as colojeepguy mentioned.
    However, interstate speed limit in UT is 80 MPH. I have 4:88 gears. I just can't think about how fast those little axles and components are spinning at that speed. My Jeep is doing well to maintain 60 MPH under its own power.
    Disconnecting the rear driveshaft is peace of mind.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
    68CJ-5 and Jw60 like this.
  20. May 30, 2023
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,361
    My Tow Bar has a braking system.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Dwins1, vtxtasy, Ol Fogie and 2 others like this.
New Posts