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Help With Steering

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Johns1967CJ5, Aug 19, 2023.

  1. Aug 19, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

    Northern NJ
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    As some of you know me I restored this beautiful 67 v6.[​IMG]
    I don't drive it much due to not being able to get the steering dialed in right. Constantly moving my hands back and forth to keep it straight I was doing some reading on it and figured maybe I didn't have the gear centered before attaching the pitman arm.
    I decided to dive into it today. Mistake #1
    I got the wheels off the ground, disconnected the drag link and found center by counting turns on the wheel, removed pitman arm and with wheels straight aligned it to the drag link and put everything together.....made it worse.... now when I turn to the left the tires won't turn all the way to the stops on the axle. Turning left is a 3 pt turn now. Took it all apart and put it back like before and still the problem persists.
    Also when adjusting the gear it will not drag in the center but drags when wheels are turned to the left. Everything is new and tight. The gear was rebuilt with a nos sector shaft and new bearings.
    I'm thinking of pulling the column out and starting from scratch....help...
     
  2. Aug 19, 2023
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    It sounds like the sector shaft may not have been correctly centered on the column's worm gear (a.k.a. the cam), as I believe this would result in the condition you're describing. If that's the case, AFAIK, the only way to fix it is to remove the steering wheel, then the column, gearbox, and pitman arm, then pull out the sector shaft and reassemble with the sector shaft correctly positioned on the worm gear.

    Here's a write-up I did - with a LOT of help from Moses Ludel! - when I rebuilt my V6 steering gear years ago. There are photos about 2/3 of the way through it showing how the sector shaft should be positioned in order to get full left and right travel:

    https://forums.4wdmechanix.com/topic/691-rebuilding-the-jeep-ross-tl-cam-and-lever-steering-gear/

    Hope this is helpful....

    Your Jeep is gorgeous, BTW!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2023
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  3. Aug 19, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

    Northern NJ
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    Is it even possible to put the shaft in off center ? Shouldn't u be able to just turn the worm gear to center it ? Without the sector shaft in it just spins freely without stops
     
  4. Aug 19, 2023
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    What you're saying makes sense, but it seems like there was an issue with getting equal left and right turns if the sector shaft wasn't positioned correctly to start with.

    Here's the part of the above thread I was talking about:

    [​IMG]

    If I'm incorrect about the above, I'm sure someone will straighten me out on that - it's been about 8 years since I rebuilt mine, but I think the point of centering the sector shaft was to establish the center position of the spline relative to the housing. That made it possible to ensure it was centered when the pitman arm was installed. However, you may be able to assess the center position of the sector shaft without disassembling the box, then mark that position on the housing as shown above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2023
  5. Aug 19, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    When I rebuilt the steering box in my '69 last year, I used an NOS sector shaft and a good used pitman arm. Both were marked on the end. I lined up the marks when I reassembled it. I ended up with no slop on center doing that and can steer to both stops:
    [​IMG]

    Another thing that helps immensely is installing some 6 degree caster shims. Those made the Jeep easily driveable even with some slop before I rebuilt the steering gear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
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  6. Aug 19, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    Yeah the new stuff doesn't have marks
     
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  7. Aug 19, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 Dropping towbars 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Measure the caster, I used a phone app and put my phone on the kingpin flat. You want about 5° difference between the kingpin and the smooth flat ground.
    Next
    Jack up the front wheels.
    Take the arm off, mark the shaft then mark the housing left, right, then split center.
    Then make sure you have full smooth travel on the axle left to right.
    Then check all the linkage and bellcrank for wear or other issues.

    Is your draglink for a v6?

    If assembled at center does not seem correct assemble it at full left and make sure you are not hitting the flywheel cover.
     
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  8. Aug 19, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    It's the original drag link rebuilt
     
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  9. Aug 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    This sounds like you could have used some caster shims....even after you get the box, sector, pitman etc all centered, you may very well still need some caster shims....check out WFO products:
    https://www.wfoconcepts.com/c-1393119-suspension-axle-shims-1-75-inch-axle-shims.html
     
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  10. Aug 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    agreed
     
  11. Aug 20, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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  12. Aug 20, 2023
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  13. Aug 20, 2023
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Yes between the spring and axle.
     
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  14. Aug 20, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    Thank you, what's the best way to check my current angle ? I don't have an angle finder but downloaded the angle finder app
     
  15. Aug 20, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    With jeep sitting on all 4, you can use the flat surface on top of the knuckle.
     
  16. Aug 20, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    So I went and bought an angle meter. I zero it on the pavement then put it on the flat of the knuckles (camera is tilted not meter) and this is what I ended up with

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Aug 20, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    In a perfect world, the flat of the knuckle should tip down to the rear 5-7 degrees.....Can't tell from your photo, but which way is the 3 or so degrees tipping? Adding a 2 or 3 degree shim to increase the caster to over 5 degrees would probably be helpful (assuming the 3 degrees of tilt you are measuring is to the rear, and not to the front).
     
  18. Aug 20, 2023
    Johns1967CJ5

    Johns1967CJ5 Sponsor

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    The king pin would have tilt towards rear of vehicle to achieve more degrees of castor. WFO products has a 4 degree shim then the next size is a 6 degree shim. What would you recommend ?
    Also I assume I would need a longer spring pack bolt also ?
     
  19. Aug 20, 2023
    Jw60

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    Another way to sort of know if caster is off is in how well it follows when flat towed. For years mine followed like a lamb then I messed with the spring pack and bushings which disturbed the caster angle and it started testing the lead side to side.

    A 5/16 (someone please verify) Allen head bolt is easier to work with than the spring pin and is a better quality so... yes but you can remove a leaf. Mine is down to a 6 leaf pack and it finally settles a little when I lift the snow plow off the ground and doesn't ride like a tractor.

    I'ld go with 4deg shim in your case the WFO shims are good stuff (that's what I have)
     
  20. Aug 20, 2023
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The one in the photo I posted above is a 4 degree. They have worked perfectly for me. But everybody's old jeep is different.

    Also be aware that when you add angle it will tip the pinion shaft down so the front drive shaft will have a sharper bend at the u-joints
     
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