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1952 M38a1 Build: Not For The Purists

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by jeepljeff, May 29, 2024.

  1. Jan 18, 2025
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2025 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    I have both, but never installed the rear track kick brackets. The big difference (and I'd argue what makes ALL the difference) is that you have a wheel mounted parking brake with the fusion calipers. The wiring, I believe, is pretty simple. Admittedly I haven't installed them yet on my jeep, and only have the front Track kick disks installed.

    For me, the ability to get rid of the transfer case mounted parking brake was a big selling point.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    Mar 30, 2024
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    Is there an easy way to tell 302 brackets from 316? I see some calipers with brackets but they don't seem to have any markings.
     
  3. Jan 21, 2025
    Old Paint Redux

    Old Paint Redux 1970 CJ5 225 Dauntless

    Pensacola, FL
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    Jan 2, 2023
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    33
    I’m in the process of installing the Fusion rear e-brakes on my 1970 CJ5. I just finished accumulating all the parts and just haven’t had the time to start it. I did the Samurai front brakes about two years ago.
    Mine calipers came off a Lincoln MKZ and I purchased them from EBay. The brackets are stamped with either “316” or “302” in large numbers. It’s easy to see the numbers. I looked at the seller’s photos of the brackets on the calipers until I found the ones with “316”. They were sold as a single caliper each for right and left. I made an offer for the two calipers and ended up paying with free shipping less than one rebuilt caliper from Rock Auto. You can purchase the both caliper rebuild kit and the wiring connectors on Amazon fairly cheap.
     
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  4. Jan 21, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    Mar 30, 2024
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    Yeah, I've been looking at new calipers and they don't seem to have the stamping on the brackets.
     
  5. Jan 24, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    112
    Are these 316s or 302s? Other than the casting, are there any way to ID them?

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Jan 28, 2025
    Old Paint Redux

    Old Paint Redux 1970 CJ5 225 Dauntless

    Pensacola, FL
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2023
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    33
    The calipers are the same, it’s the brackets that are different. The brackets have the numbers stamped on them. Using your photo, the numbers are found on the bottom side of the bracket at the end. The new aftermarket calipers with brackets don’t appear to have the numbers stamped on them. You can see the 316 on this used original bracket:
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Jan 28, 2025
    Old Paint Redux

    Old Paint Redux 1970 CJ5 225 Dauntless

    Pensacola, FL
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2023
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    33
    Looking on Ebay and Rock Auto it seems that the 2013-2020 Lincoln MKZ 4WD with ABS consistently uses the 316 brackets, Motorcraft part number BRBCR17. Rock Auto has the 316 brackets for $41.00 each.

    Martin
     
  8. Jan 28, 2025
    compostwerks

    compostwerks Sponsor

    Canterbury, NH
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  9. Jan 29, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    Mar 30, 2024
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    112
    So, I did a deep drive into seeing what all was needed for EEBrakes. The newest calipers are rear calipers from a 2015-2024 Ford Edge 2.0 Turbocharged with the 17" solid rear discs.

    That seems to be the one that uses the DG9Z-2B511-B (BRBCR17) "316" rear brackets.
    • Other Names: Disc Brake Caliper Bracket, Caliper Support, Plate Assembly Brake Back, BRBCR17
    • Description: With awd, 2.0, 3.7L. Without awd, with energi. Without awd, 2017-19. Without awd, without hybrid. Fwd. Exc.For Painted Caliper
    • SKU: DG9Z-2552-C
    • Positions:RIGHT
    • Other Names: Caliper, Housing, brcf428
    • Replaces:BRCF-244, BRCF-332, DG9Z-2552-A, DG9Z-2552-B
    • SKU: DG9Z-2553-C
    • Positions:LEFT
    • Other Names: Caliper, Housing, brcf429
    • Replaces:BRCF-245, DG9Z-2553-A, DG9Z-2553-B
    • SKU: DG9Z-2B712-A
    • Positions:Rear Right, RIGHT
    • Other Names:Motor, Actuator, Motor Electric Parking Brake
    • SKU: DG9Z-2B713-A
    • Positions:LEFT, Rear Left
    • Other Names:Motor, Actuator, Motor Electric Parking Brake
    • SKU:AU2Z-14S411-DB
    • Other Names: Wire Assembly, wpt1506
    • Replaces:AU2Z-14S411-DA, BU2Z-14S411-AYA, WPT-1214I
    Brennan also recommend switching the lugs to these:
    • Dorman 610-260 Rear 1/2-20 Serrated Wheel Stud - .618 in. Knurl, 1-13/16 in. Length
    I've priced the Sidekick disc's conversion to about $250-300. The EEBrake is going to be about $200-300 more, so around $400-500. Actuators are around $80-150 and the wire pigtails are $25 each. Calipers run the same price as the Sidekicks. Not really cost effective unless you're getting salvaged parts. I'm wanting new or referb. But maybe this infor will be helpful to the next person.

    One of the other problems I'm seeing is that my 16x4.5" wheels will not work. Seems that they work with the Sidekick calipers but won't work with Fords. The only reason I've looked into it was that I want to eventually add an overdrive and the ebrake on the M38A1 runs into the OD. Really, it's only the rod that connects to the handle. There might be a work around for it though. I've also got the option of swapping to a Civilian/M38 parking brake which was once on my Jeep before when it had an OD. So, I guess the EEBrakes are off the table.

    Looks like it's about $600 to rebuild the old 9" drums. The Jeep Man has 11s for $330 and the rears with the ebrakes for $350. Seems pretty reasonable. Herm also has 11s for $450. Though, both of these resellers seem to be really old school and have no Internet Storefront at all. Herm still has a FAX! I mean, I do actually have a FAX but who still uses a FAX there days. Then again the AOL and Outlook email addresses are a bit dated as well. So, I'm still thinking drums but won't know till I pull the trigger. Anyone order from The Jeep Guy or Herm for that matter? Anyone else selling 11s with backing plates?
     
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  10. Jan 30, 2025
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,468
    I was talking to an outfit the other day that specializes in antique automotive wiring...

    Them- What would you like?

    Me- 10' of ... wire and 6 ... connectors.

    Them- We don't have the ... connectors in stock & the price has gone way up, did you find them on the website or in the printed catalog?

    Me- web site

    Them- oh, you should get the prices out of the catalog, the web site is years out of date

    Me- Um, why?

    Them- Oh it's easier to update the catalog than the website

    Me- ...

    Me- Huh?

    Me- You can't update the website???

    Them- No, the person who set it up doesn't want to do it.

    Me- Um, OK, you know there's lots of people who can work on websites, right?

    Them- ...


    Me- OK well anyhow ship me the wire.​



    I damn near offered to do it for free. :(
     
  11. Jan 30, 2025
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2025 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    Wow, just wow.
     
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  12. Jan 30, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    Yeah, I'm just glad there are some resellers who have websites that work.

    I talked to one person and they said the 9s should brake almost as good as the 11s and that it might not be worth it to swap. Thought on that? I don't really have much experience on non-self adjusting drums.
     
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  13. Jan 30, 2025
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Driving around in a parking lot *maybe*.

    Especially if you're not actually moving.

    On a level surface.

    Otherwise I would not agree with that statement at all. There's a reason someone went to cost & trouble of putting that hydrovac on your jeep.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2025
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  14. Jan 30, 2025
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2025 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    11" fronts only were a SUBSTANTIAL improvement for me over 9" all around.
     
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  15. Jan 31, 2025
    Stakebed

    Stakebed Member

    Lake Co....
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    Not just no but Hell no. The laws of physics and all that.
     
  16. Jan 31, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    A friend said to do 11s up front only. Any reason to not do them all? I've driven a 2A with 11s and it stopped really well. Could probably put you through the windshield.
     
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  17. Jan 31, 2025
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    No particular reason not too, just that most braking occurs in the front & with 11's in the rear you'll probably have to put in a proportioning valve to avoid rear lockup, which will leave you seeing where you came from in a most unexpected manner o_O

    When I did my 11's I purposely put the smallest bore wheel cylinders I could get my hands on in the rears & in panic stops I was still squealing the back end a bit. :shock:

    But at least I could lock them up with a firm push instead of having to pull on the wheel & push the pedal with both feet :)
     
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  18. Feb 1, 2025
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2025 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    What Howard said. I only did the fronts because I only bought one axle to pull them from. Now, my jeep has Trackkick disks on the dana 30, and for now 10" rear drums. It's not running yet to give you a report on how well it stops. I have the brackets for brennan's EE disk brake kit, but want to put the funds towards roadwortiness before compiling the parts for that upgrade.
     
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  19. Feb 1, 2025
    jeepljeff

    jeepljeff Member

    California
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    Would it need a proportioning valve? Currently it doesn't unless there's some metering orifice in the fittings. If the brakes increased proportionally, then there shouldn't be any change other than the increase in braking? Fronts are usually proportioned to do 75-90% of the work. I'm wating to keep it all simple though.
     
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  20. Feb 1, 2025
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2025 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    I didn't do one. Had the stock single reservoir master cylinder too.
     
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