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1973 Cj5 - T14a Transmission

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Taylor, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Jul 11, 2017
    Jeff Taylor

    Jeff Taylor 1973 Jeep CJ5

    Charlotte, NC
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    pulled my shifter cover. Anything look out of place to anyone? I'm grinding into third gear but the syncro's look ok.
     

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  2. Jul 11, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
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    23,596
    Well, I think you can't tell very much by looking down in.

    If it were normal wear, I would expect second to be the one that grinds. Upshifting into third is quite benign compared to downshifting into second.

    Any noises? If you match speeds, does it grind anyway?
     
  3. Jul 11, 2017
    Jeff Taylor

    Jeff Taylor 1973 Jeep CJ5

    Charlotte, NC
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    It's only when shifting from second into third a quick grind. When I downshift from third to second it's smooth but when i shift back into third it grinds. If I let the Rpm drop some it does not grind as bad but still does. Not really any noise at speeds just this one issue. There is a small amount of play in the shaft and bearings which I suspect there is a small whining guy noice getting up to speed. I know it needs to be rebuilt just curious if anything jumps out at anyone. I'm hoping my new gl4 fluid will fix everything. Just don't have the funds for that at the moment.
     
  4. Jul 11, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
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    It could just be a worn or broken blocking ring for third. Not much you can tell without takig the transmission apart.

    Ya know, people used to drive cars every day that were not synchromesh. The synchromesh is a clutch between the hub that slides on the main shaft and the series of teeth on the gear, behind the brass blocking ring. If you match the speeds right, you should be able to slide right into gear, even if the synchro hub is somehow broken. Back in the day, drivers became very skilled at matching the gear speeds.

    You could try double clutching. Push the pedal in to slide out of second (or just move into neutral with no clutch action), let up on the pedal to engage the input gear with the engine, let the engine speed drop so that the main shaft is turning the same speed as the input shaft, depress the clutch and slide into third. If you get really good at this, you can shift with no clutch action at all.
     
  5. Jul 17, 2017
    tomasinator

    tomasinator Member

    Redmond, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    415
    I bought a '70 CJ5 a couple of years ago that had the same problem, a slight grind when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I figured it was the synchro. I bought a T-14 rebuild kit from Novak:
    [​IMG]

    I had never taken a transmission apart before, but I'm good at following directions (and a forum member was really patient answering my questions).

    [​IMG]

    After putting it all back together with the parts in the kit (including new synchros) and reinstalling the transmission, it now shifts smoothly.
    [​IMG]

    I expected to find a broken synchro, but that wasn't the case. I think the 2->3rd synchro's inner diameter was worn enough, such that it slipped too easily and didn't provide the clutch effect when sliding over (to bring the other gear up to speed).
     
  6. Jul 17, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
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    23,596
    The ridges in the back of the brass blocking ring grab the conical part of the gear. This matches the speed of the synchro hub with the gear it's connecting to. I expect you could look at the back of the old blocking ring - the friction surface - and compare with the new, to see how the ridges were worn down.

    Some transmissions, like the T-90 and T-18, have gears that slide on the main shaft. These gears that slide are not synchromesh. When synchromesh is present, there are no sliding gears - instead the gear teeth mesh all the time and different gears are connected to the main shaft by the sliding hub to select the gear. The hub pushes the blocking ring into the gear, using friction to match the speed of the hub to the speed of the gear.
     
    Desert Runner likes this.
  7. Jul 27, 2017
    Jeff Taylor

    Jeff Taylor 1973 Jeep CJ5

    Charlotte, NC
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Seems the grinding has just about stopped after a fluid swap. Also got brave and pulled the tcase and replaced oil seals and gaskets. Now there is a squeak with each rotation of the driveline. Bought new rear U joints and put some red and tacky in them and the driveshafts. Didnt help the sound it's Still there sounds like it's coming from the transmission or possibly the clutch area. Maybe a bearing in the transmission, not really sure. Life of a project jeep.
     
  8. Jul 28, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    Feb 21, 2009
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    Slow squeak ? Clutch in still noisy? Could be a throw out bearing rubbing on the pressure plate how's the clutch feel?
     
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