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46 Cj2a Project With Buick 198 V6

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by 44bz, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Aug 1, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
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    130
    Hi all,

    First post here. I have this flat fender I picked up in February, which I've been slowly gathering parts for. It has a lot of rust in the tub, frame seems solid so far, and it was complete with a title. A previous owner transplanted a Buick 198 in it that had three bent pushrods in it when I opened it up. The piston rings were also stuck from sitting in the bushes for who knows how long.

    I haven't been able to find a whole lot of info on this motor. I know it shares similarities with the 215 v8. It looks like a 225 and I've found that some things cross over. The motor was squeaky clean inside except for the coolant passages, which had tons of corrosion and scale in them. There were no obvious signs of internal damage, other than the pushrods, and no metal in the pan. I've gotten the rings unstuck, installed new lifters and pushrods, and I'm hoping to run this thing.

    Any information you all can share about the motor itself would be appreciated. One question I have is regarding the lower head bolts. There are three bolts at the very bottom end of the head that run through "tabs". One of these tabs cracked as I was tightening the bolt. It did crack all the way through, but I'm wondering if I can expect any issues. My attachment to this motor is minimal so my attitude is, if it runs great and if not then I'll find something else. Just wondering if this crack is basically a nail in the coffin so to speak. Thanks,

    Zack
     
  2. Aug 1, 2018
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Mar 2, 2017
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    683
    Welcome to the site. Folks on here are going to tell you how much they like pictures.

    I don't know much about the 198 V6, but there are some very knowledgeable guys here, I am sure you'll get the answers and help you are looking for.
     
  3. Aug 1, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
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    Jul 30, 2018
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    I know, everyone likes pictures:) I'll try to get a bunch uploaded this afternoon. Thanks for the welcome.
     
  4. Aug 1, 2018
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member

    Sacramento Ca.
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    Sep 27, 2016
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    1,450
    I have no expertise on the crack, but your avatar truck looks awesome (y). Welcome to the forum.
     
  5. Aug 1, 2018
    heavychevy

    heavychevy Sponsor

    Danielsville georgia
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    Sep 7, 2008
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    Welcome to the forum. I do not have any answers either, but there are many people with lots of experience here.
     
  6. Aug 1, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
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  7. Aug 1, 2018
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member

    Sacramento Ca.
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    Very cool 2a (y).
     
  8. Aug 1, 2018
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
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    217
    Great looking cj2a and truck! Unfortunately I think you have the wrong head gasket. I think the correct gasket would have surrounded the bolt and prevented the issue. No idea if the crack will be an issue but it sure looks close to the sparkplug and combustion chamber.
     
  9. Aug 1, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
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    That’s a good point. It is technically the wrong gasket because it’s for a 225. I couldn’t find 198 head gaskets and thought I lucked out because the 225 gasket lined with all the holes. Probably not my finest moment there...
     
  10. Aug 1, 2018
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    I've had a 198 over the years... the best thing I did was pull it and send it to someone else who wanted it for the parts. Parts are hard to find and expensive when you do find them. And by the way, VERY LITTLE interchange between the 198 and the 225/231.

    If you want details - Pat Ganahl's book is very good at explaining the differences and issues. I have a copy and highly recommend it.
     
    sparky likes this.
  11. Aug 1, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    May 25, 2006
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    I am working on a 46 right now that had a blown up 198 in it when I bought it. I just happened to have a fresh rebuilt 198 that I have had for about 5 years and couldn't give it away so it is going into this Jeep. With all the little quirks of these, I probably should have scrapped it and thrown in a 225. I have had several Jeeps over the years with 198s in them and they are still better then most any 4 cylinder.
     
  12. Aug 2, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
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    Thanks for all the input. I got the jeep in February and I’ve mostly been collecting parts for it. The floors are toast and need replaced. The body itself is pretty beat on but I think it adds character. But I got it cheap and with a title.

    I put a better windshield on it, replaced the grille also. I managed to score usable front seat frames and a mint condition rear seat for cheap.

    I pulled the t90/d18 tonight and discovered the trans had no gear oil in it, but water got in so that’s toast. It’s been in the back of my mind to keep an eye out for a drivetrain...
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  13. Aug 2, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    Oct 25, 2006
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    If your transmission is rusted, your engine has eh wrong head gaskets on it and is a rare difficult to find parts for one, its all out.. Go with a newer engine and 4 speed transmission. A v6 225 or a newer 4.3 chevy with a sm420/465 or t-18 would make your effort to re install and money go much further. No matter what you do, you're going to spend money to get it back on the road. Sometimes ditching your drivetrain thats expensive and no so good can be cheaper than just buying a newer more modern setup.

    Thats what happened to me. More expensive to fix the flathead and t-90 than to rebuild and install a 225 and a sm420. More expensive to replace the terrible stock brakes than to install disk..

    Look at the numbers.
     
    Muzikp, Rich M. and heavychevy like this.
  14. Aug 2, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  15. Aug 3, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Hey - I referred you to the site.

    How committed are you to this vehicle? Regarding the drive train that you have, if it were mine, I would try to make it run again. Do you have the old head gaskets? The break is a problem, but I think you have to put it together while including some support for those bolts without gasket under them. Depending on how much you want to spend, Kanter has an overhaul set for this engine that includes a new head gasket, but it's expensive at $275. TA Performance might be able to recommend a source for 198 parts. I would take the head off, cut some shims or chunks of old gasket to support the extra bolts, and assemble with some JB Weld or whatever in the crack. JB may be the best choice, but MSC and McMaster-Carr list a lot of different epoxies, and something from there may be more suitable.

    Also, push rods bend for a reason. I would take the heads apart and make sure the valves move freely in their guides. Bent push rods can also result from over-revving by a lot. Broken timing chain, or an object in the bore are also possible reasons.

    If you had a primo '62 Skylark, there would be no question that saving this engine would be the right path. But there are many engine options that would be much easier to keep running. The 215 will bolt up to your bell and was used in Rovers continually up to today. The 225 or 231 Buick is a pretty good option, but there are a lot fewer RWD Buick cars available today as donors than there were a decade ago. Likely the most popular option today is the 4.3L Chevy V6, which was used in many many vehicles. None of these options would be as cheap as getting what you have running, if that's possible.

    I would take the transmission apart, wire brush the gears, and see what you have. Even if there is significant pitting, the parts may be good enough to put together and run for a while. The T-90 is simple and easy to repair. Dana 18s always need rebuilding (seems like). So I'd encourage you to patch up these parts as well as you can and run them for the time being.

    If you are fully committed and want to swap to another engine and transmission, you can keep the T-90 or go with a truck 4-speed. A Jeep T-18 can be adapted with junkyard parts, but the rest of the truck 4-speeds (SM420, SM465, NP435) will need a kit to change out the main shaft and provide an adapter. 5-speeds and automatics are pretty much out of the picture because of their length, without some heroic repositioning of the drive train. Again, all of this has been covered in old posts here. There are a few other Jeep 3-speeds that can be made to work too. Rear driveshaft length is the main constraint on transmission swaps.
     
  16. Aug 3, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
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    Thanks Tim, your posts are always appreciated:). As far as my commitment goes, I have grown fairly attached to this thing despite its cosmetic shortcomings, rust, and need for basically everything to be replaced or rebuilt.

    My attitude on the motor has simply been clean it up and see if it’ll run. There’s a place in puyallup, Washington called hagens auto that lists head gaskets for $30. I found them when looking for an oil pan gasket. So that’s a viable option.

    The t90 I have is stuck. I’m not sure yet if it’s the gears or the top cover. The gears had some surface rust on them in spots but otherwise looked good to my untrained eye. I met an old man flat fender guy recently who’s gonna take a look at it for me. He’s also got a complete v6 drivetrain (motor/3spd/d18) available.

    My hopes are not high for this jeep, mostly because I think most people would pass on it. But I’m enjoying myself and learning a lot. Hopefully I can get it back on the road someday.
     
  17. Aug 3, 2018
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    If your set on trying to get the T90 going - let me know what your looking for as I still have parts from all the ones I got rid of. I've moved on to SM465s and T18s so they are just collecting dust.
     
  18. Aug 3, 2018
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    That's not a 198 intake manifold.
    198 had a monojet.
     
  19. Aug 3, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    The Fireball 198 and the 215 V8 share some DNA, and most importantly the same nearly unique bellhousing pattern with the 2"ears". The Rover V8 used in Land Rovers through the 1990's are the continuation of the Buick 215, including the bellhousing pattern.
    Your 198 head is fatally cracked as a result of the incorrect head gasket. Talk to Daryll (post#11) to see if he has a spare head. As you found out, the 198 gasket is different and supports those outer head bolts. The 198 is well over 50 years old and was only made a couple years at that, so parts are getting pretty scarce. The 225 was the next rendition of the Buick V6, but shares only a few parts, like the timing cover and water pump. Most importantly for you, it has a different bellhousing pattern (BOP) shared with most non-Chevy GM products of the '60s though '80s.
    You may also consider swapping a Rover engine (or 215) in your Jeep. It would be close to bolt-in, but you would need to fabricate and exhaust system, and likely swap intakes to use a carburetor. I have done this in a flat-fender and it fits fine, especially with a Buick/Olds 2 bbl intake.
    If you can find another head, and T90 internals, that would be the simplest to get your Jeep going.
    -Donny
     
    y2grey likes this.
  20. Aug 3, 2018
    44bz

    44bz Member

    Oregon City OR
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    Jul 30, 2018
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    Thanks guys, I appreciate the wisdom. I'm inclined to use what I have regarding the drivetrain if I can make it work. This flattie isn't really in the condition to dump a bunch of money into. I bought it because it was cheap, had a title, and I wanted something to tinker with. I kinda see it as a stepping stone jeep - I'll get it running/driving then sell it and find something straighter to invest in. Or maybe I'll fall in love with it and drive it forever. Hey Daryll, you have a PM inbound!
     
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