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73 Cj 5 New To Me

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by 3b a runnin, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Dec 11, 2016
    orange_jeep

    orange_jeep Member

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    Thanks. I live in NC about 10 miles from VA and a local car lot was selling a jeep that looked almost identical.
     
  2. Dec 11, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    virginia
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    Found the emissions sticker under the hood today and it stated that my jeep was factory equipped w/ a 258 I6.
    learnin more all the time
     
  3. Dec 11, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    It's in the VIN too. A 304 is designated by an "H" in the 8th character. A 258 will be "A" and a 232 will be "E."
     
  4. Dec 13, 2016
    joshua70x7

    joshua70x7 Jeepoholic

    Colorado
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    Gotta love those 73's!
     
  5. Dec 14, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Note that the 258 came with the T-14 3-speed, not the T-15. Experience has shown the T-14 isn't strong enough for the 304.
     
  6. Dec 14, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Timgr
    didn't realize the 14 was that much weaker than the t15, but I will check to see what is in it when I get that far along. Was there ever a 304- 4spd. combo from the factory?
     
  7. Dec 14, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Supposedly there was a wide-ratio T-18 transmission available with the CJ 304 in 1978 or 1979 - in some markets. If it existed, it was scarce. In 1973, no. The close-ratio T-18 was available with the 232 or 258 in 1973, but not with the 304. The only transmission that came with the CJ 304 in that year was the T-15.
     
  8. Dec 14, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Darn, I was afraid you would say that. I would love to have a good 4spd to offset the 3.73 gears. what is the simplest swap to get a granny low gear? Could probably find a SM 465 if that is a good fit.
     
  9. Dec 15, 2016
    wally

    wally SSSSTER

    upper merrimack...
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    i'd suggest researching both the advanced adapters and novak websites; both will have pretty detailed information about transmission swaps for the 304 & d20 combination.
     
  10. Dec 15, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Simplest is at the intersection of easy, cheap and locally available between maybe a dozen possible combinations. A junkyard solution can be a Jeep T-18, or the output shaft and adapter from a Jeep or IHC T-18 (or maybe a Binder T-19?) plus a collection of other Ford and Jeep parts - several combinations can be made to work. Beyond that, you're buying an adapter kit. The Novak pages are an excellent resource, as are the many discussions of this topic on this forum. Plenty of discussion in old posts here.

    Note that all the AMC engines have the same bolt pattern after 1971, so the 4-speed from a 1973 CJ with the 232 or 258 will mostly bolt in if you get all the parts that go with it. It's the "close ratio" T-18 and has no granny gear - the wide ratio T-18 was not offered in the CJ until 1977, and then discontinued for 1980.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  11. Dec 15, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Ok, I made a list of 7 different ways-in-general to add a truck 4-speed with granny gear to this Jeep.

    1) 1977-79 Jeep CJ T-18, using its own bell.
    2) 1971-79 258 Jeep J-truck or Wagoneer (full sized Jeep FSJ) T-18 using its own bell and plate adapter.
    3) Output shaft and adapter from any pre-1980 Jeep or any IHC T-18, mated to a Ford T-18 and using the Jeep T-150 bell. Some modification of the Ford case and adapter required.
    4) Pre-1980 T-18 from a V8 FSJ, Ford T-18 input shaft and T-150 bell. Some machining iof bell required.
    5) IHC T-19 output shaft and adapter, Ford T-19 (or T-18?) and T-150 bell. Not sure about this one.
    6) Ford NP435, T-18 or T-19, aftermarket adapter kit, and T-150 bell.
    7) GM SM465 or SM420, aftermarket adapter kit, and T--150 bell. May need some maching to mate the bell and transmission.

    The absolute tidiest, most ideal change-over would use everything from a '72-75 232/258 CJ with a T-18 except the transmission, substituting the 258 FSJ transmission to get a granny gear (they are the same externally). This would give you the factory floor plates, cross member, clutch linkage, etc. Likely you'd only need to change the driveshaft lengths to accommodate the V8, and everything else would bolt in
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
    carolinatlc likes this.
  12. Dec 15, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Wow Timgr thanks and thanks again for that info. I have been gandering at the Novak site. Hard to decide whats best.
    Always amazed at the knowledge and willingness to help, that's available on this forum.
     
  13. Dec 17, 2016
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    When I first bought my 5 it had a 258/t150. I swaped in a 304.....then a t-18. It was a huge improvement. I tried to find a t18 from a jeep with no luck. I ended up finding one from an old FSJ with the big spacer and super long input shaft. SO then I found an old ford t-tag with a 2wd t18 and short input shaft. swapped the input shafts and POW! 4 speed 6.32:1 crawling gear. The t150 was tough but geared to high. If you can find a 258/304/t150 bell the t-18 is a bolt on ordeal. At least it was for me. I also had 3.73 gears. Your new jeep looks like a cool project. Good luck with it. Nothing is better than hauling home a new toy!
     
  14. Dec 17, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks and yes I love a challenge
    I am very limited for salvage yards locally. Only have 1, and it is about 40 mi. or so. I ask about parts once for old or vintage Jeeps , and the reply was "we would have crushed anything like that years ago". In my head anyway, I am leaning toward the NP435 because I expect it will be easier to find. May even get it runnin and driving before I do the swap.
     
  15. Jan 15, 2017
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Begging for help again
    Local ad reads, 1975 J20 3/4 ton truck for sale w/ good frame, d60 rear, 360-t18 4spd combo. ran when parked. $750 with title
    my question is, would that combo have been factory original, or is that a repower. would that 360- t18 fit my 73 cj5?
    the 304 in my jeep is tired and smokey.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Not a bad price - likely a rust bucket. Factory combination. The axles are desirable for a wide track Cherokee or another J-truck, and you can probably sell them on the FSJ boards. The 360 will drop in - you even get the right flywheel with it. The T-18 won't work without some changes. The input shaft on a Jeep Wagoneer/J-truck V8 manual transmission is very long, about 12". The adapter is about 5" thick between the bellhousing and the transmission. This makes the combination way too long for the CJ-5.

    There are a couple ways to use that T-18 in a CJ, but they will require parts and work and aren't free. In both cases you would need a T-150/T-176 Jeep bell and clutch parts. Method one changes the input shaft and adapts the bellhousing, needing a Ford input shaft kit (Parts Mike, ca $200). Method 2 installs the Jeep output shaft and adapter on a Ford pickup T-18, modifying the Ford case to fit the Jeep adapter. If you want to go that way, I have not done this, but Nick knows a lot about this process and can advise you.

    I also recall that someone here had the input shaft for a V8 FSJ T-18 cut down and resplined to work with a CJ-5. You would still need the plate adapter Jeep PN 992667 that would go between the trans and bell to match the Jeep T-18 pattern to the T-15 bell (same bell as the T-18 uses). The input shaft would end up about 7" long.
     
  17. Jan 15, 2017
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Timgr
    would the t18 likely be the wide ratio or the 4/1 version?
     
  18. Jan 15, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Wide ratio. There may have been some close-ratio Wagoneers ca 1971-2, but otherwise the full-sizes are all wide ratio.
     
  19. Jan 15, 2017
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks again,
    I wish I knew the condition of the 360, the t18 would have to be torn down anyway to change the input shaft. would that be a D20 tc, and if so would the lo ratio be the 2/1 like the cj's?
     
  20. Jan 15, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Maybe the seller will let you start the engine? Compression and oil pressure.

    You can change the input shaft without disassembling the transmission. You will need a bearing puller -

    T18BearingPuller.jpg

    I made this one from a Harbor Freight bearing separator and some threaded rod. It's metric rod, so I had to buy it and the nuts. On a T-18, you need to remove both the input and output bearings, then you can lift out the main shaft and remove the input shaft.

    Then you install the Ford input shaft and retainer. The Jeep T-150 bell has a Ford pattern and the right depth for the Ford input, though it must be modified to work with the Jeep T-18 front pattern.

    The T-18 Dana 20 has different shift rods (longer) and shifter. The T-15 and T-18 Dana 20s are otherwise the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
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