1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Jul 5, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    After getting the feeling that I'm scattering my thoughts everywhere, it looks like it may be time to settle down and keep a single thread going for the work I'm doing.

    Quick introduction: Two weeks ago, I purchased a 1974 Postal Jeep. It had at least one owner after the USPS retired it, because it had remnants of a stereo in it, sorta bolted to the floor. Oh, and the extra seat was a giveaway, too. Most of it is intact, but there are (as expected) some missing parts and some added parts. Why somebody added a tow ball hitch below the rear bumper still has me wondering. I am an apartment dweller, so I had to rent a storage garage space to do the repairs. No power, no water, barely a roof. But I can afford it. It's mine for the next 90-120 days. So, that's the deadline for getting it street legal. :)

    You've already seen me ask about what order to fix things in, and the consensus was the 3 S's - Start, Stop, Steer. After that, it's all gravy. So I tossed in a 'W' for "whatever sorta jumps out at me at the time".

    As of today, there's been three nights of work on it. It's in the 90's in the Dallas area, so I am going to be losing water weight doing this project. Here is what I have accomplished so far:
    • Wheels off and she's up on four jack stands
    • Old oil drained and filter pulled - ready for fresh oil this weekend
    • New plugs/wires/cap/rotor/condenser/points in hand, ready to go
    • Carburetor pulled as of this afternoon. Rebuild kit at the ready. This'll be next week's after dinner project.
    • Fuel tank dropped. Some joker filled it with what seems like sawdust just to make sure that the internal rust clumps have something to talk to. Plus there was some leftover 20+ year old fuel (now funky organic sludge) in there, too. Yes, Virginia, there is a dirtier job than mopping projectile vomit out of the back of an ambulance and it's called rinsing out a fuel tank. I can see that I need to get this professionally cleaned and maybe have the interior coated so that it lasts - there is no visible rust at all on the outside.
    • Filler neck, of course, had a oh-so-1970's locking gas cap, and there's no key. The neck came inside tonight. I just drilled the living snot out of the cylinder and we now have free flow.
    • Four scored brake drums pulled. Brought them to the shop and had them measured. Wouldn't you know it, they mic out fine now, but would fail after turning. So they're trash. Just like the wheel cylinders (with cracked rubber caps), front hoses (also cracked), shoes (would you believe they're cracked?), springs (three are fractured, what's with that?) and the master cylinder (frozen up and won't budge an inch).
    • Back of the jeep has been cleaned out from both the tan shag carpeting and the water decayed subwoofer enclosures. Oh, and the other incidentals found include a pair of jumper wires, three empty cans of Dr. Pepper and a copy of Eminem's Slim Shady LP on cassette (to go with that ad hoc stereo)
    • Other new parts (coolant hoses, thermostat, etc) are arriving next week. I know I have other issues to deal with in the front of the engine, such as an alternator that spins but sounds scratchy, but if I can get away for now, it's better for me.
    I've got questions galore, but they can probably wait for tonight. I'll come back here to fill things in as I go along. It won't be as exciting as some of the other rebuild posts, primarily because body work is secondary right now to safe/legal operation. But, at the end of it all, it's still an Intermediate age Jeep coming back to life. That counts for something, eh?
     
  2. Jul 8, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Not much to report, primarily because the temperature has been in the upper 90's, and I really have trouble dealing with that much heat. :)

    One photo, though. I noticed this tag on the bottom of my differential - it looks like a Dana 44 series. I have to go under there with a Scotch-Brite pad to read what's stamped into it, but for now, this is all I have.

    And, while I have everybody's attention, could some soul please explain why I have had absolutely zero luck in finding front brake hoses for this 2WD Jeep? I can't find an applicable part from Raybestos, Wagner or Dorman. I realize that there's a metal "S" tube directly connected to my wheel cylinders, but I swear that there's a flexible black rubber hose connecting that to the main brake lines! I know it must be rubber, because it's all cracked with dry-rot!

    Thanks for any advice you can offer!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Jul 8, 2019
    Jeff Kline

    Jeff Kline New Member

    North Central PA
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    34
  4. Jul 8, 2019
    Jeff Kline

    Jeff Kline New Member

    North Central PA
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    34
  5. Jul 8, 2019
    45es

    45es Sponsor Sponsor

    Naches, WA
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    545
  6. Jul 8, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    167
    a lot of postal jeeps got a limited slip differential (traction aid) so when you change that oil you need to get additive to protect the clutches inside.
    I finished an engine swap while living in an apartment, it is not easy but doable. Once it is on the road you can do a bit more of the little stuff as needed. Honestly I would do a lot of business locally and you might find one that will let you use the parking lot for future oil changes once it is out of storage. Good luck and be careful. Plan to take breaks, don't try to power thru each day you are working on the jeep by ignoring water or food. Take a cooler of water, ice, sandwiches, paper towels, and orange pumice.
     
  7. Jul 10, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Another day and more work done. This time, it was all "inside the apartment" stuff. I'm rebuilding the carburetor. Last time I saw this done, it was on my family dinner table back when this jeep was probably still new. So, if I get this one working, it's a testament to my dad and what he may have taught me when I was 6.

    Used a bucket of the Gunk Dip parts cleaner. Whew - what an aroma! I have the carb in three major parts, and I started with the throttle body just because it has the fewest replaceable pieces. It took almost 4 hours of soaking and Scotch-Brite to get it pretty clean, as you can see. The only tricky part was the idle screw/spring and making sure that I put it back in at the correct setting. I presume that this'll be a tinker-with setting once it is all installed and the engine is running. And holy-moley! The amount of dirt, carbon and residue on just this lower third! You'd swear that the previous owner(s) had never heard of a tuneup with carburetor cleaner.
    DJ5-Carb-TBody.jpg
    I must say that not only did the cleaner dissolve all of the carbon and other deposits, it also dissolved my inexpensive rubber dishwashing gloves! I had hoped that they'd have survived, after all, they deal with oven cleaner. Nope - this gunk soaked right on through and melted the rubber like a stick of butter over a BBQ grill. Gotta find something better for tomorrow's adventure of cleaning the middle section.

    While this is a Carter YF model carb, I found a triangular metal tag attached with the following codes: 6475 S / A 3 20 A. I understand that the 6475 S is the actual model version number, but any clues on the second line data?

    I will feel a whole lot better once this part of the process is over. If everything plays out well, I have all day Sunday to install new *almost everything* under the hood and see if I can get it running from a fuel jug. FWIW: I brought the fuel tank in for a serious scrub and reline. That comes back in 2 weeks.

    Gotta get past this first "S"... I wanna hear that engine kick over already!
     
    Jw60 and Hellion like this.
  8. Jul 11, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    19,805
    upload_2019-7-11_10-6-35.png

    This is from the '75 Jeep TSM. Lots of good info in the TSMs, even though they do not cover the DJ per se. There is a '74 TSM here JeepĀ® Parts Manuals online to read and download... '73 would be better, the DJ book would be even better. I know from experience that you can get a lot of good and useful information from manuals that aren't perfectly aligned with your year and model, with application of a little judgement tempered with some basic background knowledge.
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  9. Jul 11, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    First off, thanks for the pointers to the TSM links. I've got one for the DJ, but I'm learning that these were odd ducks, even at the best of times. Maybe I am paranoid (and are those helicopters still following me?), but it seems that nothing written matters much unless you physically verify it with your own eyes. There is no rhyme or reason to what the USPS may or may not have done to the Jeep, or the previous owner for that matter. I've found such conflicts, as you can imagine, but it's a crap shoot for me to determine what is right from here at the keyboard. It'd be easier if I could get the Jeep upstairs so that I could inspect and type at the same time! Using a phone when you're elbow deep in cow-pasture crud is not the most conducive to learning anything useful.

    I still want to express my humble appreciation as I try to flatten out a pretty steep learning curve. You guys (and gals) are the best bunch of friends a newbie Jeep owner can have. Thanks for putting up with me!
     
    Jw60 likes this.
  10. Jul 11, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    167
    keep at it, your doing well.
     
  11. Jul 12, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    19,805
    Also, my '74-80 parts book does not show the 6475 for any application. There are a few numbers for the YF in the same range (6431 and such) but most are 7000 series. This indicates to me that it's a '73 or earlier number, or specific to the DJ.
     
  12. Jul 12, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    The date code, as per your previous information is "A 3 20 A" - January 20th of '73. Maybe that's it? I hope?

    While I am now of the belief that nothing would surprise me any more with this little monster, I have to suspect that if I'm using a generic AMC inline 6, that should be as generic a carb as anything. Now maybe I am showing just how naive I am, but wouldn't every car that uses the 232, provided you have a single barrel carb, use just one variant of it? I understand about different manufacturers and preventing workflow blockages by having a multi-source, but why so many different flavors of the Carter YF? And there's so very little in there that I can't imagine what the differences could be... OK - enough ignorance on my part.

    I spent last night cleaning the top third of the unit. No exaggeration - 4 hours of dip/soak/ScotchBrite and I still could not get all of the black deposits out of the air horn. Where does that crap come from? Nothing is supposed to burn in the carburetor! The float is made of some sort of wood, and it is contoured in a very odd, almost dental, shape. The choke plate now moves easily and I am waiting until later to put in the input needle valve assembly. That means tonight's odyssey is the float bowl assembly with the main jets, accelerator pump and the last of the mechanical stuff.

    It is dawning on my why they call car restoration a "labor of love" - you clearly must love this to go through the labor. My maternal grandfather owned a garage in Bushwick, Brooklyn, back when it wasn't safe to live there. And every time I saw him, he had this strange smell of aftershave and petroleum, as if the aroma of the oil/gas/solvents never left him. Now I understand why. Oddly enough, he taught me very little (if anything) about cars - learned that all from the other side of the family. Some days I wish I could go back in time and talk to him, not so much for the information on how to do what I'm doing, but more to see if we could find something to connect on.
     
  13. Jul 12, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    19,805
    Yeah, I'd expect it's a commodity engine. In 1970, AMC moved quickly to eliminate the outsourced engines from the Jeep line, when they acquired Jeep. Yours would be my interpretation of the date code too. Likely it's the same carburetor as used with the automatic in '73 Gremlins and Hornets for 49-states delivery. In my book, the applications with unique numbers are divided by vehicle, California or not, by year, and for the manual or automatic transmission. Emissions equipment changed yearly in that era, both due to improving technology and evolving (tightening) standards. Don't have the book here, but they used the YF for both the 232 and 258 through 1976 in the big Jeeps, and through 1980 (?) for the baby Jeeps. There are a couple dozen numbers, but only 3 or 4 in the 6000 range. Fascinating, eh? (y)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  14. Jul 12, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Praise be to the AMC Gremlin, but the only emissions thingie in this DJ is the charcoal canister. And, if you paid me, I highly doubt that it even does anything, as there's one line in from the fuel tank condenser and one line out into the bottom of the carb. Nothing fancier than that!

    I wonder if this is what it feels like for a hand surgeon the first time they open up a patient and see hundreds of tendons, ligaments, nerves, muscles, bones and vascular thingies. Oh, sure, we all *know* what a distal interphalangial joint is, but to have to deal with it up front and personal (and not in a textbook), well, that's a different story!
     
  15. Jul 14, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Another day, another bunch of lessons learned. I recall, back in college chemistry lab, the professor used to say "Experience Gained is Proportional to Equipment Destroyed." Yep - he knew it.

    Started off with the oil filter. And... The FRAM filter is about half an inch too tall to fit. It's the steering column that's getting in the way. Sigh.
    New fuel filter. And... No little rubber hoses or clamps in the box. Isn't that stuff sort of default? Double sigh.
    The rebuilt carburetor goes on, but there's a problem there, too. Isn't there always a problem? It seems that the screws that hold the choke coil on are stripped out of white metal. That explains why, when I brought the unit inside, I found that the choke was held on with electrical tape. Electrical tape back to the rescue, until either I get a new carb from a junkyard or fill the holes with JB Weld and then tap new screw threads into it. Either way, another sigh.
    Finally, the battery cable that I purchased, the one that goes from the starter to the solenoid, it is 2 inches too short.

    By now, I am looking for the nearest short pier to go take a long walk off of. I'm now so very convinced that I will never mail-order parts again for this Jeep. It's such an oddity that even when parts say they fit, they don't.

    Quick run to the local O'Reilly shop and I am good to go. For now.

    Oil filter goes on. Fuel filter goes on. Battery cables are finally in place.

    Now, last thing, is to change the hoses and fill the radiator up with something fresh. I start with the upper hose, and the bad luck demon strikes again.
    Cracked-Thermostat-Housing.jpg
    The thermostat housing cracks off. Now, if you look at the picture, you'll see several interesting things. First is that the crack itself is loaded down with sediment and related crud. In other words, this must have been broken and leaking for the previous owner! You'd think it would be something easy enough to fix... But then the second thing pops up - there was NO THERMOSTAT in the housing!?!? Here is what you see looking into the front of the engine:
    No-Thermostat.jpg
    There is this white powdery substance all over the place. It is probably related to white metal corrosion, but it's crazy! And there's not a trace of glycol yet in the system.
    Next, I pull off the heater hoses. Here's what that looks like:
    Heater-Inlet.jpg
    The inlet is almost packed full of rust colored crud. Atherosclerosis of the water system? Seriously? Could this person have been only using straight water instead of antifreeze? Especially once the housing cracked and there'd be a leak?

    While I have the heater system apart, I also pulled out the heater core, but except for the tons of red dirt in there, I have not cleaned or examined that yet. I do know that the fan (now I can see that through the firewall) is painful to spin, so that will probably have to be fixed, too.

    Last hose to come off is the lower radiator. It takes a while, but it succumbs to the wiggle and it comes off. And out of the engine comes... No... Rusty springs. It looks like the flexible lower hose had some sort of non-collapse spring in it. and it broke into several large parts. I pull out all that I can see/touch/reach. Oh, and not a single drop of water or antifreeze anywhere. We are talking Sahara dry here.

    If you were me, at this point, you'd start thinking about maybe just pulling out the radiator (the rest of it is already out, so why not go all the way) and send it to a shop for cleaning/testing. And that's when I notice something very odd. My front grille is not on straight!
    Grille-Off-Center.jpg

    The right side is pushed in closer to the engine compartment to make room for the steering box. The box is located straight away behind the bumper, but outside of the engine area:
    Steering-Gear.jpg

    The front grille is bolted onto both of the fenders, and there's a large bolt with springs setup on only the left side. There's a hole on the right where it looks like another one belongs, but I am not sure yet. I choose to leave the radiator for now. I figure that if I have to get back in to change the water pump (which might be crap seeing the amount of rust everywhere), that's when it'll have to come out anyhow.

    Part Two to follow!
     
  16. Jul 14, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger New Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Part Two of the weekend saga!

    By now, I am totally disgusted with the engine compartment. I start moving on back to do other things.

    New ignition switch goes in without much hassle. I do see, though, that my speedometer does not have the usual oil and amp lights, and that there's a real ammeter and oil pressure gauge on the "dashboard'. Something I sort of overlooked. I can keep 'em, or I can replace them with newer styles. At least for now, I have an ignition with a key! That'll make starting it much easier down the road. If I ever get there!

    Finally, I go underneath and it's time to drain and refill the rear axle. Bolts come out nice, the seal opens slowly, and then I realize where Jimmy Hoffa has been hiding all these years. I know gear oil. I have changed gear oil. This was not gear oil. It smelled of tar and had thick brown chunks of sludge in it. The gears looked in very good condition, but seeing this sludge in there, maybe last changed by the US Postal Service all those years ago, has me wondering about what the axle tubes look like. Right now, the cover is off and I'm just letting the whole thing drip dry. I can see that I'm going to have to go in with a plastic spoon and shovel out that brown mayo-like substance that is sitting in the bottom of the housing. Dee-lightful!

    I guess the one good thing is that I found the "tag" on the rear axle. It has the following data on it:
    5963159
    43-14 3.07

    The only part I understand is the 3.07, which must be the gear ratio. I hope that this is "pretty OK" for street driving. This Jeep was never meant to do off-roading or tow/haul duty. My truck has 4.10s in it, and I presume that the smaller the number, the faster it goes, but with lower torque. I can't find the other numbers anywhere (they don't seem to be a real BOM number), so I can only dream of what they mean. It is interesting that there's no mention of Trac-Lok on this tag, when the other tiny tag said to use Limited Slip additive. Odd.

    I will make sure that once I button it all up, I put both this tag and the Limited Slip tag back in place. Quick question: if I use synthetic GL-5 as a replacement oil, that covers the need for Limited Slip additive, right?

    It's time to get home and wash up. I'm filthy with all of the dust that was under both the hood, the dash and the body. Before I close the garage, I make one last quick hit. I grab the charcoal canister so that I can replace the filter. It comes up pretty light. How light?
    Empty-Canister.jpg
    Howzabout "There's no there in there!" light! All I have underneath this disgusting filter is a pair of circular screens. One is a donut, the other the donut center. And that's it. Not a pebble of charcoal. Oh, yeah, I do have one other interesting find. There's four ports on top. One is fed from the fuel tank condenser. The second has a rubber cap on it. Third one goes to a vacuum line into the bottom of the carb. And the 4th port? There's a stubby piece of hose on there with a freakin' wood screw glued into the end of that. Would you believe it? I cannot.

    It has taken me a bit longer than most to diagnose, but I now know how this poor undeserving Jeep DJ5 died. It wasn't from overuse. Your Honor, this Jeep was murdered slowly and painfully through neglect. It's one thing to be "unloved" but this was deeper than that. This gives "I drove it into the ground" a whole new meaning. Here, it looks like they used a Bobcat to help finish the job right.

    I'm now $2500 into this project, and I probably have another $1000 before I even start touching the body. I pray that the engine is salvageable. I think I may just get a compression checker to make sure that the cylinders even do what they are supposed to. Oh, I have all of the old six spark plugs, if anybody wants to read those tea leaves for me.
     

Share This Page

New Posts