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Drivers Side Exhaust Manifold Hotter Than Passanger Side ( Duantless 225 V6)

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by Kolten, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Feb 23, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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  2. Feb 24, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Silver Hill,...
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    My 2 cents here is Fireball is correct . You don' have points anymore.... no need for the Delco cap with a window . Upgrade the cap to the other Delco for a Petronix & adjust the Timing. That will straighten it out & you'll will be pleased at how she run's better . :study:
     
  3. Feb 24, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    Are you suggesting that I am one tooth advanced on the location of the distributor? At TDC should I rotate the cap anticlockwise one tooth? I want to be clear that I am understanding you correctly. I also went ahead and ordered a new HEI unit for conversion last night because I was bored and frustrated.

    thanks for the help.
    -Kolten
     
  4. Feb 24, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    It's conceptually complicated to time an odd fire engine. The Firing order and crankshaft rotation to each cylinder combustion event is:

    #1 fires - 150 degrees to #6 - 90 degrees to #5 - 150 degrees to #4 - 90 degrees to #3 - 150 degrees to #2 - 90 degrees back to #1.
    The distributor needs to match this odd spacing. If you look at the picture in an old post from FinoCj:

    You can see long and short flats on the cam for the points.

    When the #1 cylinder fires, the points must be leading into one of the long flats so it will fire #6 150 crankshaft degrees later. If cylinder #1 is firing with the points heading into a short flat, it's going to be firing #6 in 90 crankshaft degrees which will be 60 degrees too far advanced. If you're not using points, it would be the Pertronix pickup.

    I don't have the parts on hand to verify positions myself since mine is HEI so all I can do is present the theory.

    You need to position the distributor base and the rotor so when the rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder on the cap, the points/pickup have just opened and are heading into one of the long flats on the cam.

    It's possible simply turning the base 45 degrees clockwise will have the rotor still pointing most directly to #1 on the cap and the points on the right part of the cam. That's what the picture in my previous link looks like. If that doesn't work, you may need to pull the distributor and move the rotor one tooth forward/back.
     
  5. Feb 24, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    As I think the OP is running pertronix ring and not points, I don't think there is any concern over where the cam 'flats' are. The magnet ring is mounted fixed onto the underside of the rotor, and the magnetic pick-up is mounted on the base plate (breaker plate?). In this case, the cam is no longer used or touched by anything...but the magnets in the ring must have the appropriate spacing for the OF engine...do we know the history of this pertronix set-up? It goes back quite a few years ago, but there was a batch of rings that were manufactured 'upside down'...I have run a couple more recently manufactured ones with no issues (say in the last 5 years). With the pertronix ring, it is also important that the gap between the ring and the magnetic pick-up within spec for each magnet, otherwise spark will not be strong for any magnetic that is out of spec. This is usually adjusted by reducing endplay with a spacer just above the distributor gear as well as small washer/spacers between the ring and rotor as needed (and sometimes some gentle re-shaping of the ring by hand). Pertronix is pretty simple and as long as the ring is right, its pretty forgiving even when its not totally within the manufacturer specs.....
     
    Lockman and Beach66Bum like this.
  6. Feb 24, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    As FinoCJ says, the magnet ring should have unevenly spaced magnets on it. You need to go from #1 firing to the longer distance between magnets. The same as with points and the cam.
     
  7. Feb 25, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    Thanks guys, I wont have a chance to work on this more until the weekend likely. I will attempt to get the pertronix setup working, but I did just order a HEI unit from online. In theory, the information you guys provided about lobe spacing on the cam makes sense and I could see how it would be easily overlooked for a OF. Depending on the location, that would also explain why one side would be much hotter than the other. Hopefully when I get this sorted out it will run like a monster!
     
  8. Feb 25, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    The boy had his one tooth off same symptoms. His was one tooth to early made it miss the next post by just a smidge. Only found it after his pertronix ring loosened up and it wouldn’t start.
     
  9. Feb 27, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    I think It may be an issue with the pertonix ring. I'll upload photos soon.

    Kolten
     
    Lockman likes this.
  10. Feb 27, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    Ok, I have attached a couple pictures of whats going on under the distributor cap. I am not sure what my dad did when he put this on, but something seems off to me. I have a HEI distributor set to arrive in the mail tomorrow, I understand that I will need to grind off a bit of the intake manifold to make it fit, and I understand that the vacuum advance will need to point toward the radiator on the HEI dist. Where will number 1 be located on the HEI disturber so I can set it at TDC and be done with this pertonix setup.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Feb 27, 2020
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    I believe this post by Warloch in August 2012 will answer your question.

    "CRT Performance sells real good wire sets for the HEI.

    Here is the orientation for installing the plugs:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You need a button head bolt for the front of the intake - if you work the grinding and fitting it is fine... Just takes being carefull and mulitple fits to get there a little at a time."
     
  12. Feb 28, 2020
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    I had my dauntless do this the whole right bank was dead …. but I have HEI ,,,,it was my magnetic ring in the dist it had a crack
     
  13. Feb 28, 2020
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
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    Be aware that unless you have a fan spacer, the vacuum advanced might not be able to point forward with the HEI cap. That mean you have to re-clock the distributor....I think this is where I messed up on my original install of the HEI. re-clocking an evenfire is no big deal - re-clocking an oddfire requires you to pay attention to which terminal No 1 starts on.
     
  14. Feb 28, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    Ok guys, I had some time to play around with the jeep today. My new HEI ignition arrived in the mail and after some grinding of the intake manifold, I got it set in. Set number 1 to TDC and had the rotor pointing to number one (battery side on the HEI distributor) and..... It fired right up and ran on all six cylinders for the first time in 12 years!!!!! I got pretty excited until it started running like garbage. I realized that the distributor was not totally seated and it must have jumped a tooth or something. That being said, all I will have to do is set number 1 back to TDC and get everything lined up again and in theory it should run like a champ! I will give an update when I get a chance to play around with it some more, but we are getting close to solving this problem!

    Thanks again,

    -Kolten
     
    Rich M. likes this.
  15. Feb 28, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  16. Feb 28, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    All cylinders are hot at least I'm upset it jumped a tooth that was my bad. It was running amazing
     
  17. Feb 28, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    Ok, so I can't leave it alone!!! I went back out and set everything back to TDC (or at least I assume I was TDC and not 180 off). I can get it to run, but at a high idle and a lot of backfire through the passenger size bank out of the exhaust (I assume this means late ignition on cylinders on that side). At least I am now getting a response out of all six cylinders, but need help making it run smooth and not at a high idle. Suggestions?
     
  18. Feb 28, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You could be 180 out. It needs to be tdc on compression stroke.
     
  19. Feb 28, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    sounds like 180 out....
     
  20. Feb 28, 2020
    Kolten

    Kolten New Member

    Duvall, Washington
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    So should I roll it to tdc and pull a valve cover to make sure it's not 180 out
     
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