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Early Vs Intermediate Difference

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Cowboyjeeper, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Mar 6, 2019
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    That right there narrows it down a lot.
    You need to determine how much (%) and how fast you expect to drive on Interstate.
    How much (%) and how slow do you need to crawl it ?
     
  2. Mar 6, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Frankly, the difference in the wheel base between the early and intermediate is inconsequential on the trail, at least in my experience. Both are still short----

    As posted, the intermediates are overall a better Jeep. The only real downside was the transfer case gearing. As much as I like the 225, if I was starting from scratch, I would be still looking for an intermediate. Even if it ended up with a sbc------
     
  3. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    That helps a lot I have looked at a couple that were just total junk and I’m still deciding on weather or not I want to play the emissions game yet.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    I have heard that v8 power means very hard to keep cool, my 53 went away mainly because the sbc the PO had in it just wouldn’t stay cool.
     
  5. Mar 7, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    I have never heard that about the V8 CJs. The 304 does not run hot, and the factory cooling works well. There was a "heavy duty cooling" option which included a fan shroud, and 7-blade fan with fan clutch. The shroud is available aftermarket, and I'm sure you could find a usable 7-blade fan if you needed it. There was only one radiator, 6 or V8, LHDC or WHDC. To keep the engine cool, you need the heat radiation capacity, air flow, proper engine timing, and proper engine mixture. Any or all of these can contribute to overheating.
     
  6. Mar 7, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

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    Clearly, if an sbc or any other V8 run hot, there was a major deficiency in the engineering or execution of the cooling system. It isn't rocket science and, especially with a sbc, there are all sorts of really good aftermarket cooling components.
     
  7. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    Yes I was much younger when I had that one. I just want a good reliable set up, having said that I’m willing to take time to do it. That’s part of why I’m here to get all my research done thanks to all of you
     
  8. Mar 7, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    I run a 304 in my 74 using the stock 6 cyl radiator made a shroud 7 blade clutch fan rarely gets over 200. Only when it’s crawling and like a hundred out. it runs a 195 thermostat.
     
  9. Mar 7, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    If I were starting over, I would go with an intermediate. Unless you have the time, space, equipment, fabrication skills and desire to spend allot of time on improvements. In stock form the pre 72 models are very similar to cars from the 40's; basically Sunday drivers for secondary roads and novelty in these modern times...... if you want to run them in stock form at 55+ mph very often you quickly realize that they weren't designed to do that. There isn't much left on my jeep from 1969. If I were using it as a ranch jeep or strictly hunting I would have left it alone; but I drive it on long trips and see allot of freeway. Once you get into the 72 and later those jeeps become more like a car from the from the 70's- right from the factory. Something that is designed to be able to run 55-60 mph regularly. Many more easy bolt on mods are available the newer you get.
     
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  10. Mar 7, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    There is definitely a part of my thought process that questions why many of us buy an early cj5 and then make all the modifications that are already OEM for an intermediate cj5. The key ones to me would be the upgraded steering, brakes, axles and even rear gas tank (yes the rear tank was available at the end of the early cj5 run, but only for a limited time). The other big one for me, would be getting a 258/T18 combo - albeit not that common for the 72+ vintage. At the same time, I drive my 70 with a v6 and like the somewhat unusual nature of the engine, love the D18/OD combo (that isn't available on the 72+), and honestly think it works pretty well as is - even with Ross steering and 10" brakes as long as tire size is kept reasonable. I upgraded to 11" brakes for the 33s, and added tera low gears to the D18 (and would to a D20 as well) and haven't decided how to handle the steering yet but that doesn't stop me from driving and wheeling it a lot. I feel there is a bit too much tendency to want to take an early cj5 and turn it into an intermediate when it really is not needed (maybe when my junk starts to break I'll sing a different song). Or, if you really like/want those upgrade features (especially steering?), then look to buy an intermediate. At the same time, the two vintages of jeeps are pretty darn similar in many ways, and both will drive quite well as long as the condition and maintenance of the components is all good.
     
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  11. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    I see your point and mechanically agree, however I really like the idea of a pre emissions jeep. My next question is how Difference will the overdrive make as one I’m looking at has the overdrive, but is 4cyl
     
  12. Mar 7, 2019
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    I want a Jeep that ranges well both on and off-road

    My main pre 1972 concerns are:

    #1 Having any engine other than the Dauntless... Just not enough HP for todays Hiway usage.
    #2 Ross steering... Almost always slightly loose at best relatively and the death wobble is a deal breaker.
    #3 The 9" Brakes The 10" Wagners are O.K. and 11" Bendix are near ideal.

    Then we come to the topic of ranging as in 3 speed vs 4 speed and D18 vs D20.
     
  13. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    I drove that cj3 for a long time with 11”drums 33s sbc sm420 and d18 no OD though. It was in great condition but 55 was bout it. Not a bad jeep though. I see your point as long as you understand it won’t act like a jk and use common sense you would be fine.
     
  14. Mar 7, 2019
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

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    I never seen where you mentioned the year of the Jeep............Early w/4 cyl has 5:38 in the back later 1965 +/- has 4:27 with the 4 banger........all will like the OD in the first 2 gears...........on the freeway in 3rd gear in OD it hurts them.
     
  15. Mar 7, 2019
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

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    OD is ideal for differentials having lower ratios like 4.56 4.88 and 5.38.
    Not needed for 4.27 and higher differential ratios.
     
  16. Mar 7, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Not wanting to pile on - there are many older posts about this topic. 60 HP would be enough to go highway speeds if a Jeep were more aerodynamic - but it's not.
     
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  17. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    #1 I agree but where I live I almost never see highway above 55 and a v6 swap will happen if not already equipped.

    #2 Saginaw steering is a great upgrade I have never had death wobble in a Jeep but can’t be fun as it was scary in a ram pickup.

    Brakes are very important I will be looking into that.
    And I’m sure I could make a intermediate pass emissions just not sure if I want the headache, the upgrades seem like lesser of evils thoughts anyone in AZ got an intermediate thru emissions?
     
  18. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    Please do that’s why I asked to get different viewpoints
     
  19. Mar 7, 2019
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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  20. Mar 7, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

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    I feel comfortable driving mine at 65mph on the highway with v6 (4.88s and OD) - and I live in an urban city for driving it, but yeah, I stay in the slow lane and leave some extra space in front of me as emergency maneuvers are definitely where things get scary. As a second clarification...my Ross box has been modified with cross-over drag link and 1-piece tie rod. So, yes, while I think the ecj5s are pretty driveable, I have made some upgrades to mine that fit my ability, budget and driving preference.

    Additionally, many of the upgrades members make on here are really cool. I love these upgrades, and if making those upgrades is part of your interest, then by all means please do them and show them to us....I have to live vicariously through other members on here when it comes to such things as my skill level isn't quite there. Posi and Chris' (and well as many other members - I am not even sure I can fathom what Ryan's varg is going to be) have quite modified jeeps that are completely awesome and way beyond anything I could build...but I think its important to remember that not all early jeeps have to be heavily and awesomely modified to be reliable, fun and very driveable and wheelable. Carry-on...
     
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