1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Green Hell...the Never Ending Project

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by johneyboy03, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Jun 14, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    So i got the bulltear nickel cover this morning.

    At first i'm really not confident to put that thing in my engine.

    Just take some measurement out of it.

    Side clearance seem to be at 0.003"....i was able to force down a 0.004" but the 0.003" feel better. It's witing the oem specs but i was expecting more to be near the 0.002" as manual say.

    As for end clearence i use i rule and the filler gauge again and the gear are sticking out 0.002-0.0025" not easy to read. I have a 0.007" gasket from bulltear that i took mesurement and it will easily compress to 0.0055". SO i will be around 0.0025-0003" that seem good to me. I will double check with plastic gage.

    And last thing the gear that has the shaft that connect to the distributor has some side play and will move the gear in the cavity pump.

    Just contact them and they told me is normal because it will seize when cold. But the one i got from proform and the one i have on the jeep doesn't have this much free play.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  2. Jun 14, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    .003..........is in the ball park........and if your starting with clean smooth walls & floor vs grooved up used areas , you should be fine..............

    the end clearance I feel is most important.........and you should get a dial indicator on there and get a real exact number...........and then see if Bull or TA Perfm sells thin shim gaskets like they do for the Buick motor.......so that you can close that gap up..........also it's a good Idea to get a bottom steel shim plate cause that gear now will just rest on the base of the aluminum pump cavity and eventually wear & get you back to where you are now...........take a look at my blueprint 225 build and what I did to that pump.
     
  3. Jun 14, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    I've got a 0.007" gasket from bulltear. I can read 0.0055 with a galiper.

    I just mesure the end clearance with pastic gage and i got a little less than 0.003". It's not as close as i like too. I did torque the bolt at 85 in/ft.
    35238996_10155253607806621_3339240019264012288_n.jpg

    I have the stainless steel midplate from bulltear along their relocation kit.

    As for end clearance, can i torque them a little more to compress more the gasket ?

    And one last thing, i have another issus that i may easily solve. I bought from bulltear a set of Hrc gear. They groove the upper idler gear. But the other gear with the shaft that connect to the distributor has a lot of side play in the hole between pump and timing gear side.

    I try my other new gear that as run maybe 10 minutes in my previous cover and the play cut in two. Since i know bulltear just use melling gear can i mismatch this gear along the hrc gear to get rid as much as possible the side play? Both combination of the gear spin easily.


    P.S. I may have read 20 times you're blueprint post since the last 3 months ;)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  4. Jun 16, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    IMG_5889.JPG IMG_5890.JPG

    IMG_5891.JPG


    IMG_5892.JPG So big day of work, reassembling everything for the second time.

    Everything is torque to oem specs. Waiting tomorow for filing oil and prestone so rtv got to dry.

    Everything went straitforward and i had a very nice fit for the bulltear cover.

    Now tomorow is d-day for oil pressure.
     

    Attached Files:

    73 cj5 likes this.
  5. Jun 16, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
  6. Jun 16, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    I would not over-tighten those bolts......your not going to squeeze that gasket much more...

    Always allot of talk about gear hardening / temper and matching those hardness's together so neither wear...........might want to call the dude that sold them to you.

    Lets hope when you do fire it up you get the results that your after............I think it will be fine.
     
  7. Jun 17, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    So juste came back from a 20 miles road test.

    Problem is still there....got a little more pressure but i'm just in the 10psi/1000 rpm range. Can't get more than 30 psi when crusing

    Now the flowkooler pump seem to be junk product. With a 160 stat it can keep the engine under 210, mostly 220. That may not help the pressure issus.

    On road before i wasnt getting the high temps it would stay in the 180 range.

    Will need to move down the oem pump.
     
  8. Jun 17, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    I'll tell you.........I've had the flowkooler pump and I've had the Flowkooler impeller installed on another pump............and I'm sure there might be some folks out there that love them.......but I threw all that junk away years ago...

    Did they ship that pump with any additional pressure springs or shims? You should be able to manually crank that pressure up.....either by changing the spring or adding shims at that pump block..on the bottom.
     
  9. Jun 17, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    We already talked about that flowkooler pump. I should have listen....have the leave to grab sometime and listen to order....

    About that pressure springs, is that just suppose to release the over pressure that pump is doing lilke about 65 psi ?

    Didnt know i could put shim yo get higher pressure on those pump...

    Really starting thinking it could be more related to the main and rod bearing. Engine has been rebuilter by professionnal and crank was machined along the rebuit.
     
  10. Jun 17, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    That is how the pump is set for pressure.........the spring tension pops off to regulate it maximum pressure..............I would talk to those guys and see what pressure it's set at coming from them.....I don't see why you can't add 10-15 lbs.

    If your rods and mains are loose well that's a question you can only answer by dropping the pan...
     
  11. Jun 17, 2018
    Rozcoking23

    Rozcoking23 RUN & GET BIT! 2024 Sponsor

    Stockton, CA
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    805
    I had the same issues with the FloKooler pump, my temp would run at 200 when running down road at 55-60 but would drop to 170-180 while idling. took it off and put stock water pump on and back to running 180-185 both on the road and idling.
     
  12. Jun 18, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    Did drop the pan to install the cover....i use to play with my hand on component and i wasnt feeling any loose. But i would need to plastic age them to see what it's realy are.


    Oem pump ordered....i will toss the flowkooler.
     
  13. Jun 19, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    There is something that i never worried about but since i'm trying to figure out my oil pressure issue it come in my mind.

    When doing my frame swap i had no other choice than relocalate the oil filter near the exhauts as you can seen from this 2013 picture. My taught back them was to keep the hoze lever as much as possible with the oil pump. But now i wondering if i could have got me more problem that it solve. With the body over it, can the oil get more heat ?

    I found another place on the passenger side, i could bolt it on the front inside shell. It will likely get way less heat but it will get around 18" higher than the oil pump.

    What you guy's think about that issu?

    filter.png
     
  14. Jun 19, 2018
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,869
    I have mine up by the battery. heat will definitely hurt the oil.
     
  15. Jun 19, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    Heat will obviously thin the oil viscosity and thus change the overall pressure reading at the gauge...........a simple test would be to check the pressure cold and later after the engine warms up......in either case the lubrication properties of our modern oils more than likely has not been compromised.............but, that location next to the headers while keeping in mind that most of the Jeeps use is off road traveling at less than normal driving speeds would probably not see the cooling effect one would desire.

    The other issue with the remote filter is just rooted in the basic's of moving Hydraulic fluid..........which is simply anytime you add length , volume or restriction to the pumped system the pressure will suffer.
     
    johneyboy03 likes this.
  16. Jun 19, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    After the system is primed, all force it takes to push the fluid up in elevation is cancelled by gravity pulling the fluid down the other side, minus the loss in friction of the fluid against the walls and itself (which will be there regardless of filter elevation).
     
    johneyboy03 likes this.
  17. Jun 19, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    Yes that cross my mind...but it will be just over the headers again.

    When cold i get a strong 50 psi.
    When engine reach 180 degree pressure is around 20-25 psi but i will get lower while time goes and engine getting too hot. What i think from there, the oil continu to get warmer since it exposed to exhaust heat. Moving it on the on the front shell i will get less lenght of hoze (around 2 foot total less) but it will be about 18" higher than the pump but it wont get any heat from exhaust.

    Also i still have the overheating problem from the flowkooler pump (will get the oem tomorow) so that may not help my oil pressure. (engine is getting around 210-220)
     
  18. Jun 19, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    Oil Pressure in any oil system in reality is not really a given in as much as what the pressure gauge should or should not read..........meaning that all systems in different motors will probably all have different readings regardless of mileage , age & use..............Old industry conventional motors such as yours vs more modern engines like being built today that obviously have a much more improved galley, cam tunnels and ability to seal & maintain higher oil pressures...........

    Oil in as much as doing a lubrication job , just has to be moving in the system...........pressure is important , but only to the point of moving the oil along for it's lubrication process but also to pull heat out of these friction areas we call bearings............Anyone can say that you need 20 lbs at Idle or 50 lbs at Idle........But the true determining factor will be your bearing and overall engine life. In fact to support that theory too much pressure can also have a negative effect if it's moving by the bearing too quickly thus not pulling heat out...

    What I do with my Drag Racing engine oil systems obviously does not apply here except the bare basics of oil flow that I covered in the Blueprint 225 thread...............In as much as I wanted the oil pump to be as tight as possible........while having the block and pump housing minimize restriction and keep the oil in the pan centered around the oil pickup for all that off camber wheeling that I'm sure you do.....modifying the pan to accommodate that is probably more important than having an extra 10-15 lbs of pressure at Idle........
     
  19. Jun 19, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    Always on the point Tarry. I may want to have overkill specs for my engine. I'm running with low pressure for years and i never felt the engine needed more, it was running as a charm and i wasn't hearing any starving sympton. I got some when i try to bring the oil pressure up with my old cover when cruising around. Last week-end with the bulltear cover installed i did a 50 mile road test around the town and i didn't feel any starving in the engine even if i was only around 20-25 psi while cruising. As you said volume is as important as pressure and that bulltear cover seem to have solve this issu even if i dont get the pressure i dream of...
     
  20. Jun 19, 2018
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,869
    I ran my lines up behind the radiator and made a loop up to the filter along the top of the fender the bracket is attached to the bar that runs from the cowl to the grille. I don’t get much if any heat off the headers
     
    johneyboy03 likes this.
New Posts