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Help Nub With Upgrade List

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Pappabear1973, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Feb 15, 2018
    Pappabear1973

    Pappabear1973 New Member

    Canandaigua ny
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    Jan 23, 2016
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    36
    Ok. So I know the questions I have must have been answered a thousand times. I have tried the search but find almost nothing in these subjects... (probably using wrong search terms? I seam to speak a different language?) Only one is for the disc brakes.. Because it's at the top.... Which is confusing... Does not seem to say where and what years for all parts..... So please help point me in the right direction. Mine turns over. Ran until they tried to do 12v upgrade with points) gets gas maybe lie pressure? Want to refresh most everything and do pepper 12v upgrade. Get running then update for daily driver. Thanks 1965 cj5

    F head refresh kit( what should cylinder compression and oil pressure be at?)

    6v to 12v conversion without points( electric ignition preferable)

    Headlight (all lights (led?)) update

    Axle upgrade.. Bolt on... Preferably with disc brakes . What gears are recommended for daily highway use and fuel economy

    Power steering upgrade( including steering column)(or is there a better steering box for example Vega which is used widely for t buckets etc.)

    Windshield update (lower mount with electric wipers)

    F head upgrades like intake and exhaust and carb.

    Radiator replacement

    Changing to rear gas tank/fuel cell (electric fuel pump)

    Replacement wiring harness options

    Spring replacement... What kits

    Transmission refresh kit

    Transfer case refresh kit

    Carb rebuild kit.

    Heater rebuild... Or is vintage air etc better to replace with?

    Places to order replacement rockers and other body parts
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Feb 15, 2018
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    Are you referring to the disc brake tutorial?

    From that thread...
     
  3. Feb 15, 2018
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

    WA
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    You've got quite the list of questions. If you search google or bing, type "ecj5 f head" (for example) and you will see numerous threads.
     
  4. Feb 15, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Jun 19, 2009
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    Do a search for some of your questions. Many of your questions have been covered here multiple times.

    Here is a power steering upgrade I just completed on my jeep.
    Ted's Steering Upgrade, With A Twist

    And then there is this thread if you want to read through it.
    Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!

    Novak adapters sells the best transmission and transfer case rebuild kits hands down.

    You won't get much more performance out of the F head unless you add a turbo like someone did on here years back. Clifford performance sells a header, not sure if it helps that much.
     
  5. Feb 15, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Axle upgrade.. Bolt on... Preferably with disc brakes . What gears are recommended for daily highway use and fuel economy?
    leave the axles that are there alone unless there is grinding. change the fluids, and check them off the project list. Dana 44 is a pretty stout axle. Dana 30 is better than the 27 front, but then you are (most likely) regearing. worry about it after it breaks. 5:38s are fine for as fast as the Fhead will go. the Fhead isn't really a highway driver either.

    Windshield update (lower mount with electric wipers)?
    I wouldn't worry about this.

    Changing to rear gas tank/fuel cell (electric fuel pump)?
    I personally like the under seat gas tank. if your current one isn't bad, id leave it where its at.

    Heater rebuild... Or is vintage air etc better to replace with?
    ha....no real good options to heat an open cabbed vehicle.

    Replacement wiring harness options?
    I bought an a1 performance brand for my 62 a month or two back from ebay. google or bing or ebay search "universal wire harness". pick what you think you may need.

    6v to 12v conversion without points( electric ignition preferable)
    I put in a pertronic electronic ignition, only because I don't like to monkey with the points.

    as stated above, Novak conversions has the best rebuild kits out there, and also the best customer service.

    as for the fhead rebuild, if you have local shops by you, then you would be best to get a quote. weigh cost vs. value on your intended use of the jeep. A kit to do it yourself was 1400.00 bucks about 2 years ago when I thought I was going to do mine, but for that coin, id put towards a 4.3 engine.

    the replacement radiator/leaf springs/carb rebuild kit you are asking about is a simple google search away. once you find the part number, you can cross check in rock auto's search bar, or a1 cardone, or whatever site you wish to buy said parts from.

    good luck with whatever you end up doing with this project. but maybe break it down, and tackle one thing at a time. if you are asking 20 questions at a time...its a lot. there is a lot of help here. these guys are not only dedicated to the ECJ's, but also to helping out fellow members here.

    my only advice to give: stay away from anything made by Omix-Ada. they have proudly earned their poor quality reputation.
     
  6. Feb 15, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Compression? I'd be happy with anything over 100# - but the important thing is that all cylinders are roughly similar.

    Nothing wrong with 6 volts, and absolutely nothing wrong with points. In both cases they richly reward a very small amount of intelligent upkeep.

    No need for LED lights. You'll never outrun your lights with an F-head.

    intake, exhaust, carb… minimal returns if any.

    Radiator replacement? Why??? The OEM units are much more durably built than new units.

    Steering and brakes are good things. OEM will work if well kept, but many people do upgrade, especially if driving in traffic.

    Don't lose sight of what an early Jeep is - a remarkably capable, resilient, and enduring machine that set the bar for OFF-road ability. It is NOT a performance vehicle and was never meant to be.
     
  7. Feb 15, 2018
    Pappabear1973

    Pappabear1973 New Member

    Canandaigua ny
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
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    36
    Thanks. As for heat. I have a Keller top. It has a heater in it. But looks sad shape.

    I believe my f head to be the second version... 125hp... But not positive... So I hope with slight mods that daily highway speeds can be obtained.

    As for gas tank. That is a must!! I live 45 miles from where my rig sits.. So I need a bigger gas tank to make it to work on Monday and back to the gas station I use in Friday night when I get back home. Also my I have custody of my grandson. I will not subject him to the gas fumes.

    I won't use the vacuum wipers.. Again a daily use vehicle. Ratings a lot in the showing around here.

    I heard the 30's were weak for the front and thought I read somewhere where some one upgrade to a more modern jeep front that included disc brakes on it.......... Which is where I'm confused on the topic... Why gm junk yard parts? Isn't there jeep parts that can be used from later years. I thought I read so. But I find conflicting things on the internet.

    Also for Google f head... Every one says it's crap. Lots of write UPS saying that.. But nothing about refreshing with new seals and gaskets. Let alone kit numbers. Saw one write up that said a company offered a better intake. But Google found nothing in the company listed. Just lots of frustrations..

    Again a search did not find me a write up on the power steering upgrade. Just a couple things where people used this one or that one and had trouble mounting it and where to mount it.

    I hope to have some money come in soon is why I'm trying to figure this out so I can use it to order a bunch of stuff and how to make this old girl road worthy again this summer. Again. Perhaps I can not stress this enough. I may only be in my 40's but I'm completely retarded when it comes to the internet. I have spent two weeks searching... Sitting in the rig up to 18 hours a day yields lots of search time. But I have found little. Very frustrating to me. So if any one could be kind enough to help me and post links maybe you these? It would be great. Thanks.
     
  8. Feb 15, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Very well said Pete. I couldn’t agree more.
     
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  9. Feb 15, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Unfortunately, you've heard or read a lot of mis-information on you '65 CJ5. This forum is generally a good place to find what you need, and there is a great knowlege base for these old Jeeps.
    An F-head 134 is rated at 75hp, give or take. You won't easily or on a budget get much more out of it. Its an ancient tractor-like powerplant that will move an old Jeep at a leisurly pace. There are no bolt-on parts that will significantly increase power without drastic measures like turbocharging. Consider a Pertronix ignition to eliminate the points, and make sure the rest of the engine is healthy. By the way, there is no intake manifold to upgrade as the carb bolts straight onto the head. Where are you getting all this mis-information?
    Your '65 likely has 4:27 gears in the axles (most common ratio for these years) that are pretty well matched for all around use, especially on the road. Keep your axles, as the Dana 27 front and Dana 44 rear are more than adequate. Consider upgrading the front to disc if you really feel its needed. Junkyard parts are available that make a nearly bolt-on swap. Some pieces are straight from later model Jeeps.
    A rear fuel tank can be added, but maybe more easily you can add an under seat one on the passenger side. That way, you don't give up the bracing for the drawbar/hitch out back.
    You can retrofit electric wiper motors in place of the Trico units. Even marine versions adapt very easily.
    There are a couple power steering upgrades well documented on this site, with the most popular being the Saginaw conversion. This is usually done with engines other than the F134 that lend to mounting a power steering pump. Pumps have been mounted on the F134, but it takes a bit of fabrication, and the engine has little power to spare.
    Repairing the stock Ross steering is usually adequate for original sized tires. Find out where the loss of motion is, and see what needs to correct that.
    Get the Jeep running, steering, and stopping, keeping as much original as practical to keep costs resonable. Then consider looking into "upgrades".
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  10. Feb 15, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    courtesy-twitter.com_-300x195.jpg


    Forty-five miles on an F-head is a long way. Not saying I've never done it, I used one as my only vehicle for a decade. But you have to be fairly determined if you do it regularly.

    But the F-head is not "crap." It was able to reliably operate from the Sahara desert to the North Pole under adverse or combat conditions, even underwater, carrying anything from a four star general, to a nuclear weapons system, with or without roads. But modern highway performance is something people try to force on it after-the-fact.
     
  11. Feb 16, 2018
    Pappabear1973

    Pappabear1973 New Member

    Canandaigua ny
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    Donny thank you for the information on the Pertronix ignition . Is a specific kit number for that?

    A for my searches mostly have been in the internet. Unfortunately say like yesterday I tried to search f134 12v electric upgrade on here. Go ahead and try it!! Not one single result pertaining to that!! One on rewiring. One in aliens alternater. Some on hub upgrade etc. just crap!!

    I keep trying to figure out why every one says it's just a tractor 4cyl. Can't do much with it?? I had a 1973 triumph spitfire. For history that motor is a long strike 4cyl that was designed for a tractor. However they lost the contract. They changed the top end and should it to triumph. My little car would do well over 100 any day with four speed tranny. Hell it would get up to seventy in second gear!! So my Osborn is either the design of the head is limiting it and or the gear ratios. Now no I do not desire to make this a street beast and stop the 4wd. So I understand the gear ratios will limit me... Can one get a 4 speed that's worth the upgrade? I doubt any one has toyed with other heads. I see some sweet looking jeep rods. One has a baby 331 hemi in it. I know just where to get one from a running car for a grand. Tempted... However I want to be able to enjoy back country roads and to plow lol.

    Thank you for the info. Again my searches on here just seem to suck donkey sports equipment.... So any info is greatly appreciated.
     
  12. Feb 16, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Your search is too specific. I just searched "alternator conversion" and had 4 pages of threads pop up.

    Search Results for Query: alternator conversion | ECJ5[node]=9

    The F head and L heads are based on a 1920's engine design. I have a 1933 Willys engine and it is pretty much identical to the L heads in my 3As. The connecting rods are very long with a long stroke and a small bore. Great for torque, bad for horsepower. I don't recall the torque numbers of the F head, but the L head is rated at 60HP and 120 ft-lbs of torque which is fairly impressive for its small size. Tractor engines, such as Farmall gas engines, are of similar design.
     
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  13. Feb 16, 2018
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    As for your windshield wiper upgrade, this is what I done with mine. I bought the wiper motors from Defender Marine, I had to make the wedges to make them fit square to the glass. I used the 3 1/2 " shafts on mine, bought the short arms, and blades, heated the arms and bent them to lay flat with the bottom of the glass. Good Luck.[​IMG]
     
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  14. Feb 16, 2018
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you have the wrong Jeep for what you want to do.
    If you found a Jeep a few years newer it would have many of the upgrades you're thinking of doing to yours....
     
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  15. Feb 16, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    A lot of it comes down to aerodynamics.

    The F4 will cruise all day at 55 and on a flat road with no headwind it will do 60 but at that point the cubed nature of aerodynamic resistance starts rearing it's ugly head.

    Honestly I get the feeling you're basing your requirements on what you've read on the net. The best advice you'll get here is to get your jeep to the point where it will Start, Stop & Steer and then drive it for a while to see what changes you really need to make to it.
     
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  16. Feb 16, 2018
    cayenne

    cayenne Member

    central Texas
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    I tend to agree with colojeepguy. I spent abunch of money doing alot of the same upgrades you are talking about on my jeep. In the end, it would have been cheaper/quicker to just buy an early 70's model that look almost identical to a '65 (only weirdos like us can tell the difference). If it has sentimental value, then disregard and tinker away.
     
  17. Feb 16, 2018
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member

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    X2

    Here's one (expensive) but gives an idea of the upgrades mentioned.

    Link - Spendy But Probably The Best Ever Universal Jeep.
     
  18. Feb 16, 2018
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member

    Sacramento Ca.
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    This is spot on good advice. Two thumbs up... way up (y)(y)
     
  19. Feb 16, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Your Spitfire should have a 1296 engine, and if I recall, it is very near to a "square" engine with both the bore and stroke just shy of 3". The F134 is much closer to a '53 -'55 Austin Healey 100-4 engine with a small bore/long stroke configuration with about 2660 cc (160 ci?). The Healey made around 90 hp and would push the light aerodynamic car to 100mph, hence the model name "100". They even blocked off 1st gear in the early models because it was not needed with the torque of the engine. The Healey engine has both valves up in the head, and more cubic inches than the Jeep.
    Your Spitfire engine is much more of a sports car engine. The Jeep engine is truly a relic with pre-WW ll roots, and the F head is the later "hopped up" version!
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  20. Feb 16, 2018
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    The 2 greatest changes to an early CJ you can make is to upgrade from 9" or 10" brakes to disk and or 11" drum brakes and to convert to manual or power saginaw steering and fix the generally low caster reading by adding shims to help it track straighter going down the road.
    I love my rear full tank and the 71 with a factory tank still has drawbar bracing but it is different then the earlier models. The bottom wiper mounts are far better than the overhead mounts but part of the benefit is the taller glass and shape of the windshield. The F head as said is a very old design, far older than your spitfire engine, it was also overhead valve where the F head is a hybrid with intake in head, exhaust in block The Fhead stroke is far longer than the spitfire engine at nearly twice its displacement. The F head has large 2" intake valves and revs much slower than the spitfire engine and the jeep weighs twice as much and has the aerodynamics of a brick. The v6 models will run 100 mph if you have the nerve, not me. The 4 cylinders there would be no way they could run that fast, doubt they will make it to 75 mph before they run out of power. I agree the 12 volt system would be a good upgrade, you will need an alternator mount and then do some wiring changes. If you can do your own wiring the EZ-wire wiring harness is a great upgrade for around $150. The Pertronix ignitor is a good upgrade over the points also. If it were me I might consider one of the fuel injection systems to aid in performance, not necessarily HP but driveabilty and maybe a better top end speed along with easier starts and maybe a little better mpg.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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