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Help with Dist Cap

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by rkusa, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. Feb 6, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    102
    Well, I got the dist cap, and turns out the old one is very corroded although I didn't find a crack, relpaced it and found it was on wrong from the previous owner. The cap was just moving around.

    Then I found the tab and so turned it around, but, I switched the wires to just the opposite since I was turning around the cap. The it started to backfire big time in the carb, and out the back.
    Then I put the wires back were they were, and now it turns the starter motor,
    but won't start at all.
    Since I just got this, and don't have a book or anything yet, Please Help.
    Below are photos. Two of the holes in the old cap look real corroded.
    Any ideas....and now, which wires go were.

    I think it's 1 3 5
    2 4 6
    But......!
    Jeep CJ5 6cyl 1971 m0del MFG. Sept 1970


    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Feb 6, 2007
    Southtowns27

    Southtowns27 Custom Title

    The Backhills of...
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    536
    Alrighty, here's how you can figure this all out. The cylinders on the driver side are 135 starting at the front of the vehicle. The pass side is obviously 246 again starting at the front. Pull the #1 spark plug. With the coil wire removed, hold your finger over the plug hole and have someone bump the engine over with the key little by little. When you feel the very large rush of air come out, you know #1 is on the compression stroke. You can verify this by the timing marks. The timing mark in the balancer will be somewhere near the TDC mark on the timing cover. It doesn't need to be perfectly lined up, but it needs to at least be close. You can probably rotate the engine by pulling on the fan. Pull the distributor cap off. The rotor will be pointing very near to the terminal on the cap where the #1 spark plug wire belongs. With the cap off, bump the engine over again so you know which way the rotor rotates, and just put the rest of the wires on in order, 165432.
    EDIT:
    The PO might have had the cap on weird because that's the only way it would run and he didn't know how to set the timing. Here's a good trick to get it close. Do the trick to find the compression stroke on #1. This time, line the timing marks up so the mark on the balancer is lined up with the 5* BTDC mark on the timing cover. The V6 is supposed to be timed at 5* BTDC I'm pretty sure. Anyway, put the coil wire back on and also hook the #1 spark plug wire to a spark plug. Lay this plug on a suitable ground surface, basically any clean metal on the engine block so it gets a good ground and will spark when it gets juice from the coil. Loosen the distributor hold down clamp and get the dist freed up so it moves back and forth easily. This may take some patience since the aluminum dist housing and aluminum timing cover seem to weld themselves together. Turn the entire dist housing the same direction of normal rotor rotation about 1/8 turn. Turn the ignition on. Now, rotate the distributor housing the opposite of normal rotation while watching the spark plug. When you see the plug spark, tighten the dist hold down. Now you'll at least be close enough for the thing to run. Once you get it fired up, reset the timing properly with a timing light (remember to disconnect the vacuum advance when setting the timing). Good luck
     
  3. Feb 6, 2007
    Strider380

    Strider380 Can I have a zip tie?

    New England
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    Jan 12, 2006
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    1,117
    Make sure the clips on the cap are in the notches on the distribuor and not cocked at all. Also, replace the wires, plugs (gap em), air filter, rotor and points. Thats probably why its not starting. And be sure to change the oil and filter.
     
  4. Feb 6, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    OK and Thanks about a Ton. It will take me a day or so, but I'll report back what happened.
     
  5. Feb 10, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    Well, I did as instructed above....by Southtowns 27. the first paragraph.

    Now, the Jeep will start, and wants to run almost smoothly before throttle is applied....then it seems to choke out and quit.

    So, in attempting to cypher where all the parts were to complete step #2 in the above post, I found that the coil was not seated in it's proper receptacle, and, that the dist vacuum hose
    is attached to nothing.

    So, I will get a book real soon, but, the only place I see a place to plug the hose into, is a round hole at the base of the carborator......? It does not reach there, and I doubt now that it was attached before....!??

    Is this were it goes, and what are the ramifications of it being the way it is....


    Also, behind the carb. there are two other hoses ...they are plugged.....Good or bad...?

    Thanks in Advance
    Dan
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007
  6. Feb 10, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    9,221
    Dan,
    The vacuum line for the vacuum advance attaches to a port on the right front of the carburetor.

    The ports on the rear of the carburetor provide manifold vacuum for the PCV Valve in your valve cover.

    Did you time it already and it chokes out?
     
  7. Feb 10, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    Thanks Adam
    No I didn't time it yet. I did reattach the vacuum hose with no change.

    Problem here now, is, I know nothing. Not even where the timing marks are. or the dist hold down screw that Southtown wrote about.
    But.....the new dist cap was definitely an improvement, and it does start so, there is hope....both for the Jeep, and me.

    I have done a lot of parts replacements on newer cars, and know some stuff.
    But this Jeep was sort of unplanned, and needed to boot.
    I have owned and loved Jeeps in the past, but never this old. So, I am learning.

    Hopefully it will run.
     
  8. Feb 10, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    9,221
    The bolt that holds the distributor is under the head of the distributor on the driver's side of the engine. There's a tang that it sits on. Loosen that turn the distributor to adjust timing.

    Timing marks are on the damper, there's a groove on it and the timing cover has marks cast in it on the drivers side. Take some model paint (white or silver) and paint both the 5* before TDC, 0, and the groove on the damper.

    Borrow a timing light or buy one, they're cheap, see where you're at. Should be ~5* Before TDC (0*)
     
  9. Feb 10, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    Thanks Sparky: I'll give it a look and try.
    Dan
     
  10. Feb 11, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    Well, I got the distributor loose, but now I am having trouble finding the damper and timing cover. I need to find it in order to get it timed. You would think this easy....it's a small engine...!

    I see the fan...which I think is attached to the water pump. Below the fan is a big round disk with holes in it....I think it's part of the cam.
    Of course there is quite a bit of built up grease which I'm gunking away.
    I can move the dist , but have done so several times, and the Jeep won't start now.
    OK. Any help would be appreciated.
    Dan
     
  11. Feb 11, 2007
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    5,349
    The fan is attached to the water pump, the cam is behind the water pump inside the block. The large diameter piece below the fan blade is the drive pulley for the water pump and so on, the part behind this that is about 1" thick is the harmonic damper, somewhere along the outside edge of this is a groove, that is the top dead center mark (TDC), just to the the right of the damper on the aluminum timing chain cover at about the 2 o'clock position should be the timing mark that Sparky spoke of. These are the timing marks you use the timing light on.
     
  12. Feb 11, 2007
    windyhill

    windyhill Sponsor

    PA
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    1,502
    Clean all that gunk off your in the right place. The round disc with holes in it is on your crank, this is where a line is marked, clean that off. Down level with your fuel pump and between it and your crank is a little alum. tab with tick marks on it. clean this off good and mark the little tabs with white paint, also mark line on crank disc. Try to remember where the dist. was before you moved it and use it as a ref. point. It doesn't usualy take lots of moving, a little at a time.
     
  13. Feb 11, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
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    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    Well Thanks to all. I found the mark on the disk. Then spent the rest of the day cleaning. Crazy as I can't think the previous owner could have timed the Jeep. I don't think it has ever in it's life been cleaned. I have at least another days work just getting through this mess. It is leaking oil from one of the head gaskets....maybe, I say maybe, be cause it might also be somewhere in the front of the motor. Nothing on the sides.

    I did try just turning the dist cap a little at a time, then attempting to start it, but not much luck there. It will start a bit, but it's now way worse than it was when the dist cap was on back wards.
    I'm hoping timing it will help.
    I also noticed when I took out plug #1 that is is fouled black.....my car books from newer old cars say this could be pretty bad. But, I'm going to stay optimistic.

    There are way less wires and stuff on this Jeep than on other cars, and if I have to
    put a new motor in it....I think I could.
    After they dragged it here with a tractor, I was able to start it and drive is back and forth on the driveway, but it kept quitting intermittently. That's when I touched the dist. cap and it fell off. But the gears seem good, and the 4x4 worked no problem.

    So....I again thank you great people for your help. I am hoping to get a timing light first and then a manual.
    Until then and I suppose way after I will be needing guidance.
    Sparky...the new format looks Great.
     
  14. Feb 12, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    [​IMG]

    OK I found the marks. Should they line up before doing the spark trick.
    How do you get them to line up. Bumping the engine, seems rather not so exact. I have tried turning the fan, but ithe belt just slips....Any tips or tricks here.?

    Next: How do you do it with a timing light.....I saw one at the store today....$40.00. Is it a tool that would be needed again. Or should I borrow one....from a auto repair etc.


    Thanks in Advance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2007
  15. Feb 12, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
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    9,221
    To get started line the marks up. You have the right ones. Line up the mark on the balancer with the 0 on the indicator. A socket, 15/16"? IRRC with a short extension and a breaker bar will allow you to do this. Or, put it in gear and bump it until it lines up by pushing on the vehicle. Make sure it's turned off and the rotor is out so it doesn't start, coil is discoed, etc.. ;)

    The rotor should point to 11:00 as you stand on the driver's side of the Jeep and look across the engine bay.

    That should get you started, literally and figuratively. Then put the timing light on the #1 plug wire and watch where the marks line up. That's where painting them comes in, makes it easier to see.

    Move the distributor a little bit at a time until you get to 5*. Tighten down and should be good.
     
  16. Feb 12, 2007
    Executioner

    Executioner Member

    Reading,Pa, USA
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    Aug 19, 2006
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    347
    I can't help much with the technical aspect's like these other gentlemen can but however offer some advice.

    When I had a timing chain jump on my Diplomat I replaced all the worn out and bent rod's and stuff and puled my hair out for a week trying to get it timed again. My dad offered many times to do it for me but I wanted to figure it out my self, AND I had a book:rofl:
    He finally came over and instructed me how to degree the cam, set the dist. at base timing and hook up the plug wires without the book, then set timing. He STRESSED don't "futt's with it" until your ready to do it from start to finish, Go back to the first page of this post and reread everything and print it out then with a fresh head go to the jeep and
    "Get er Done!" From the instruction's these gentleman have given I have no doubt that when your done the jeep will run great.

    Again start with a fresh mind and go slow take your time:) Good Luck!
     
  17. Feb 13, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
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    Will Do and let you all know how it turns out.
    Again Thanks....!
    .
     
  18. Feb 22, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
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    102
    Well, I lined up the marks and did everything in the thread. The turn the dist until a spark plug sparks didn't work....no spark.
    I had it started and almost idling. Then the fan belt broke.....It was old and cracked....so I changed it....the went back to attempting to get the Jeep to idle enough to use my new timing light....no....it wants to idle....but won't. I relined up the marks three times...maybe more. Turned the dist ever so slightly at a time....but.....then the battery went....so it's charging now.
    Any one know if I missed something.

    I can't set the timing if it won't idle.....
    Did changing the fan belt have anything to do with the timing....seems like I was almost there then the fan belt change put me back to step 1.

    I will keep going until I get it, but I'm worried, that it might be something else as
    I still haven't got it to idle.....sometimes if things are to hard.....even though I will continue...it might be me doing something wrong.
     
  19. Feb 22, 2007
    rkusa

    rkusa rkusa

    Western NC
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    Feb 4, 2007
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    102
    Ok.....I've just spent the last two hours reading threads on this forum.....so, it seems like it could be lots of stuff causing the thing not to idle. Since so far it seems like the previous owner had the dist cap on wrong, never set the timing, never changed the fan belt, has plugged hoses etc.....I have lots of work to do, equipment and books to buy...ta da ta da.

    I wonder if a new engine would be a better idea than going through all of this. I also wonder if they even make new engines for these.
    And, I wonder about how long a 225 Dauntless could be expected to last if I get through finding and fixing what is wrong with it.

    I realize that is unanswerable here, but I need to drive the thing, and so far, I'm not doing that....LOL.
    On the other hand, I am learning all kinds of stuff, and it's fun,
    So, I got the timing light and dwell Tachometer on Ebay for $15.00,
    Maybe I will get a deal on a Vacuum gauge, and compression gauge, and who knows what else.
    I'll report back after I spray the cab with cleaner, check out fuel line leaks, I know nothing about what the points roter and condenser should look like if they are good, but the last owner left 4 condensers, 3 points, and two sets of plugs in the glove box...all look used.
     
  20. Feb 22, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
    Joined:
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    9,221
    Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep us posted and let us know if you need more help.

    I'd just drop the distributor in, turn it until it idles, then start troubleshooting. At least if it runs it makes it easier to troubleshoot.
     
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