1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Oil Bath Or Regular Air Filter Element?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Mike Allen, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Jan 16, 2018
    Mike Allen

    Mike Allen New Member

    Louisville, KY
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Trying to mount oil bath in the '55-'69 CJ5 reproduction tub. Problem! The firewall in the reproduction is not true to form. It can be done, but the oil bath moves about 2 1/2" closer to the engine. Not in the "true" location. The You Tube Omix-ADA identification video on the (blue) CJ5 clearly shows this. Check this video out--looks to me like the carb return spring is hooked to the oil bath...what ever works.

    Although this is a frame up total rebuild (not restore to 100% orig), I am not above incorporating a modern air filter element. I would appreciate the pros and cons of oil bath vs regular air filter before I drill holes in firewall. I have never had a vehicle with oil bath--so I don't know if they are truly superior or just from back in the day.

    This jeep is for dependable fun with grandkids on as many trails as possible.
    Advice Please Thanks, Mike
     
  2. Jan 16, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Both styles are perfectly fine for Dependable fun. I went with a traditional air filter on both of my CJ's just because I didn't want extra oil to add to the oil already spilling all over the place:rofl:. If it's not a traditional restoration my only advice is to do what you feel is right for your situation. The old oil air bath was designed more for gravel/dirt roads because that's all that was around. new paper air filters are great as well. If you haven't already bought the oil air bath I would go paper
     
  3. Jan 16, 2018
    Mike Allen

    Mike Allen New Member

    Louisville, KY
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks for your response jeepstar. I was thinking all that you have shared. I actually have 4 oil baths. I am toying with gutting
    one out and fabricating the inside to hide a paper element.
    I did not know if the oil bath was better at keeping water out the system during a shallow creek crossing. Guess that depends on the fab of the paper element holder?
    Truth is I have lot of finish work before either one is needed. Trying to think ahead.
    Mike
     
  4. Jan 16, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    Personally I think the oil bath is preferrable for Jeeps. They do a better job than some people give them credit for. All 3 of mine have oil baths.
     
    dozerjim, Beach66Bum and mike starck like this.
  5. Jan 16, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,871
    Motor life did get quite a bit longer once paper filters came along. They are much better now with the sealed air boxes and accordion filters and now get 10xs the life out of a motor vs when our Jeeps were built. There are obviously many more factors then air but there must be some correlation.
     
  6. Jan 16, 2018
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,083
    Must agree with Glenn on this. (y)
     
    Mark T. and dozerjim like this.
  7. Jan 16, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    Not everything newer is better. I like the oil baths.
     
    Mark T. likes this.
  8. Jan 16, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    If you were to see how dirty the oil in the oil bath cleaner can get in dusty conditions then it is easier to understand how well an oil bath does work. Anybody who has cleaned the sludge out of one has witnessed it first hand.
     
  9. Jan 16, 2018
    Mike Allen

    Mike Allen New Member

    Louisville, KY
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Thanks gentlemen. I know Oil baths served the entire auto industry for many years. I like the look of the oil bath, also. I just did not know if the "oil bath" fell into the same category as the inadequate heaters. Thus, being replaced with modern heaters.
    I am straight now.
    Many thanks to all. Please do not give up on me--I am in the home stretch of my first jeep. So many loose ends to tie up in this build. Which means more questions.
    mike
     
  10. Jan 17, 2018
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,725
    I agree with everyone else, oil bath works better in a dirty environment. Where I am all the trails are sandy and dusty in late summer, when we go" Forrest Viewing", we come back covered with dust, even with the windshield down. I had a K and N on it for a while, which needed washing a lot anyway. My question is if the one you are looking at is 2 1/2 " closer, will the air hose still work right? Good Luck
     
  11. Jan 17, 2018
    1957Willys

    1957Willys Member

    Birmingham, Alabama
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    698
    I put a M38A1 filter on mine. The element can be removed straight out of the top instead of being spot welded in like the civilian filters. They are also easier to convert to paper with little modifications. I did have to move one of the brackets on the M38A1 filter housing so it would fit in the factory location of the civilian filter.
     
  12. Jan 17, 2018
    Mike Allen

    Mike Allen New Member

    Louisville, KY
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Rick your thoughts are accurate. It has to put a very tight bend in the accordion hose--I would guess at 180 degrees almost. I am mad that I did not notice the difference in the fire wall prior to painting. Above, I encouraged viewing the You Tube video from OMIX-ADA on model identification. The jeep is a 1955 (blue in color). I can see by the fire wall recess dog legging to the center of the tub where the oil bath mounts that the tub is one of their reproductions (Made in Taiwan by the way) On the original '55 tub, the recess is vertical the entire length. It appears to me that a shorter accordion hose may be required. Cutting the hose is not an option (I would think). The hoses I have are old and brittle and set in the natural bend. Perhaps when I get a new hose it will be much more flexible and make the tighter bend.

    Other solution is to fab some stand off mounts and mount it where it belongs. I don't like this idea either. I would have reworked the fire wall had I noticed it earlier!! Would have been a lot easier to mount oil bath on new tub while on saw horses also! Lesson learned.

    Catch that video if you can.
    Thanks Mike
     
  13. Jan 17, 2018
    Mike Allen

    Mike Allen New Member

    Louisville, KY
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    M38 Something to think about. Thank you.

    Mike
     
  14. Jan 17, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,754
    Could you maybe insert a rigid 45º or 90º elbow to ease the bend on the flex hose??
     
  15. Jan 17, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    My understanding is the oil bath works best in dusty conditions mainly because of ease of maintenance. Jeep addressed the high-dust issue with an oil-soaked foam wrap around the paper element in '70s-era Jeeps. The wrap catches the majority of larger dust particles, and can be washed and oiled as frequently as needed. This extends the life of the paper element to the normal service interval, as I recall.

    I also recall reading about oil analyses of the K&N oiled filters vs conventional folded paper filters on one of the diesel truck forums. Oil from engines with the paper filters had a lower silicon content than when using the K&N, indicating less abrasive dust reaching the cylinders. The K&N advertises being less restrictive, so the filtering efficiency might be intentionally lower so they can use a larger pore size. The K&Ns are marketed as a performance upgrade for many applications, and may not be entirely equivalent to the factory oil bath air cleaners. It would be easy to repeat the experiment using a factory oil bath air cleaner and an equivalent aftermarket peper element filter. You'd have to run the Jeep through the same environment for the same number of miles in both cases, and pay for a couple of oil analyses. I suspect the paper element would win.
     
  16. Jan 17, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    I totally agree on the K&N filters, fuel mileage went up just a bit on mine. Proper oiling of the element should catch most of the dust but more getting through wouldn't surprise me. If I always used it in dusty conditions I would probably switch back to a conventional dry element.
     
  17. Jan 17, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    With the oil bath type I have based my opinion on the condition of the oil which at a minimum can be starting to get dirty (as in obviously not fresh looking) to being very dirty with sludge in the bottom which is particles in the air being caught in the oil.
     
  18. Jan 17, 2018
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    217
    I cut the firewall section out of my 55 tub and welded it into my replacement tub for this same reason. I believe the last of the f head cj5s had the same oil bath air cleaner mounted off the passenger side fender with brackets. Maybe Jeepstar could confirm this?
     
  19. Jan 17, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    Mmm. I thought most of oil looking "dirty" was carbon from combustion and not dirt from the air. I've read that diesel oils like Rotella and Delo contain more detergent because the carbon load for a diesel is higher, and the extra detergent is needed to keep the carbon in suspension for the lifetime of the oil.
     
    Daryl likes this.
  20. Jan 17, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,367
    I should have been more clear that I meant the oil in the cup of the air filter and not the engine oil. Ooops! ;)
     
New Posts