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P/s Box Replacement Help

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Desert Runner, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Aug 6, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    This may be a shot in the dark, but I thought I would try.

    My AGR Super box 1 P/S box is leaking from the steering shaft input. I contacted AGRperformance, and asked about a rebuild kit. He said he would rebuild it for $265, which it what I paid for it new, + $80 shipping both ways, but he doesn't sell kits, Or I can buy a new one for $500+.

    So I'm looking for some type of replacement. I can find CJ7 p/s boxes but all of a sudden the input and output spline counts change between boxes.

    When I installed the AGR box I used the stock pitman arm, but I don't know if I had to count the input splines for the borgeson steering shaft.

    I have looked at the 78 TSM and spline count isn't mentioned. So.....

    1. does anyone know the spline count for the stock cj box.

    2 or know if a cj7 replacement PS box would work.

    3. does anyone know whos steering boxes Jeep used for the CJ7's i.e. GM Ford etc.

    I was hoping to get a new box before I remove the old one, but trying to get something that will fit is getting harder without info

    Thanks
    Jay
     
  2. Aug 6, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Sitting up n buckled down. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Desert Runner likes this.
  3. Aug 6, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    I've got a chevy 1500 under tarp waiting for the junk yard to reopen, I guess I'll pull the box from it and compare it to whats on the Jeep now. as a last resort just about anything can be retro fitted. but I was hoping for a bolt in option.
     
  4. Aug 7, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    The Chevy box may mount on the wrong side depending on the year. 87 and down mount on the outside rail.
     
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  5. Aug 7, 2020
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Active Member

    Kelso Wa
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    There are a ton of gears that fit. Call redhead steering out of auburn wa. Mine was $280 if I recall, from a 70s cadillac . Input, output and ps line flare ports are the same as stock but variable ratio and big bore. I believe a stock gear is also the same price. I spent some time on the phone with them to id a gear that would fit my wants prior to purchase. They have a wealth of knowledge.
     
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  6. Aug 7, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    There's very little to average Saginaw ps box. If it's just seals they are easily, economically rebuilt.
     
  7. Sep 2, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That is assuming the AGR box was designed using standard Saginaw design,... when I pull it out I will pursue replacing the steering shaft bearing and seals, other than that it seams fine.

    The C1500 steering box won't work, bolt pattern is too big 4"bolt centers, My CJ has 3" centers.

    But, ..... I have a Buick Roadmaster sitting next to the garage waiting for me to remove the engine and tranny for the owner, as payment she said I could have anything else off it I wanted, My son has already striped out the dash, seats, steering column, and other misc parts. to repair his 94 roadmaster. The steering box has 3" center bolts and looks just like my box, so, I guess that should be incentive for me to get to work. :watch:

    Did I mention elsewhere that it is raining today
     
  8. Sep 19, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    The P/S box off my 76 Wagoneer will mount on the Jeep. BUT it used flair fittings, the CJ uses orings. Also the bosses that the CJ hoses connect to are lower, the Wagoneer's fittings are elevated about 1 inch. I am limited on space, the wagoneer's hoses go up about 2 inches and then 90 bend, but that's too tall for the CJ, the new aluminum radiator sets very close to the P/S lines.

    Question, do they make a 90 deg flair fitting that mates to a brake line flair. and is there a term other than Flair fitting.

    I can convert everything else to the flair style but I need to 90 off the box due to clearances. Any ideas?
     
  9. Sep 19, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    From some notes I have...

    Steering Gear
    11/16-18 on the high-pressure side. 5/8-18 on the low.

    1981-newer are "metric" 16mm and 18mm thread with o-ring fittings


    Saginaw Steering pump

    5/8-inch flare connection was used from the beginning until 1979 and a 16mm O-ring connection was used from 1980 on

    What you need are some power steering banjo fittings by sound of it but they might all be AN style fittings.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Sep 19, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    There is a different gear for the J20 vs the Wagoneer and CJ. Compare the diameter of the Wagoneer gear to your AGR gear. If the AGR is larger, it's probably the J20 type gear. Possible these were also used on GM trucks, but beware the reverse rotation issue that is described above. This gear was also used in GM commercial service for ambulances and hearses. The cores are scarce, and many of the passenger applications have 3 mounting tabs rather than the usual Jeep standard of 4 tabs.

    J20 owners have complained of buying a reman intended for the J20 gear, and getting a 3-tab gear as a supposed equivalent. If you have a 4-tab large diameter gear, keep it. Compare the diameter of the end of the gear.

    If you want to use the flare fitting gear from a Wagoneer (should be the same as CJ), get the hoses for an earlier year CJ and use them. The adapter to o-ring style just screws in to the back of the pump. Unscrew it and you have a flare fitting connection.

    If you have the larger diameter gear, a rebuild kit for a J20 would probably work. Not very expensive - worth a try. AGR is likely protecting their brand and product by being uncooperative.
     
  11. Sep 19, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    A wealth of information as always, Thanks Timgr

    Measured the AGR box and the end cap measures 3.5 inches, and is a 3 bolt core
    The Wagoneer box is 3" end cap, and is a 4 bolt core.

    I would prefer to use th oring hoses because they fit the low profile.
    The CJ oring hose is bent to fit the space available, all of the Wagoneer hoses i can find are not.

    The banjo fitting shown above might work to get out from underneath the radiator with 3/8ths steel line. I can convert to standard P/s hose after that.

    I don't understand the Flare to Oring statement, is this something that requires the box being torn down or can it be accomplished externally?
     
  12. Sep 19, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Would a banjo adapter be able to handle the flow rate needed???
     
  13. Sep 20, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Saginaw #5691676 also referred to as the “76” box.
    This is an 800 series box used on Jeep CJ before about 1980.
    They have a 3-1/8” bore.
    They have 4 bolt mounting.
    They have “flair nut” fittings.
    They have 36 spline input shaft 13/16”.
    They are 4-1/4 turns lock to lock.

    Saginaw # 5687962 is Saginaw largest box.
    The 808 series Saginaw box was used on Jeep J20 trucks.

    They have a 3-1/2” bore.
    They have 4 bolt mounting.
    They have “flair nut” fittings.
    They have 36 spline input shaft 13/16”.
    They are 4-1/4 turns lock to lock.

    After 1980 Saginaw went to 3/4” - 30 spline input and “o ring” fittings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  14. Sep 20, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Re
    Glad I could help.

    The high-pressure connection on a GM power steering pump uses a screw-in adapter that accepts the o-ring hoses. Remove that to expose the original flare nut fitting. Same pump, just add the adapter for o-rings.

    You should be able to use the hoses from a 1980 or later V8 CJ to get o-ring connections, or use hoses from a 1979 or earlier V8 CJ to get flare nut fittings. Should be the same length and bends, with different ends. I don't think this is an issue - just buy the hoses with the fittings to match the steering gear. No adapter at the steering gear needed.
     
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  15. Sep 20, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Timgr, I understand the pump end, I have to change it when ever I get a new pump, I thought I could change the box end, obviously not,

    So the hose for a 74 CJ looks like it will fit, but can't find the return side, I will need the metal piece before it turns to rubber. Hope it's not unobtainium. worst case maybe go to a hydraulic hose shop and see if it can be duplicated
     
  16. Sep 20, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  17. Sep 20, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    The return side is low pressure, so any "pipe" that you can get into the steering box would do. If its a flare fitting, a piece of brake pipe the appropriate size will do. Just hose clamp on the return hose to the pump.
    -Donny
     
  18. Sep 20, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks again, I can stop banging my head against the wall, looking for parts.
    time to order and cross my fingers
    Thanks to everyone.
    Jay
     
  19. Sep 21, 2020
    SCH

    SCH New Member

    Southern California
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    I went through a similar problem on my 75 when I converted to PS. I ended up doing this little fitting after 700 trips to every parts store around. There just isn’t much room between where the fittings exit the box and the radiator/grill. I tried a bunch of factory fittings and nothing would clear.
     
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  20. Sep 21, 2020
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

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    I did raise my radiator about 1/2 inch by re drilling the mounting holes , that helped a good bit however I re bent the steel lines a little too and got the clearance I needed. If you have a radiator mounted fan scrould re drilling the mount bolts might not be an option.
     
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