1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Power Steering Conversion

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by CJ5USMC, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Jan 8, 2015
    CJ5USMC

    CJ5USMC New Member

    Pensacola FL
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Two years ago i did a power steering conversion for my 73 CJ5. I used all of the parts out of a 73 wagoneer. I have a few issues that id like to fix.

    Issue 1: While not moving, engine running, as i turn the steering wheel the pulley will freeze and not move for a split second. This is not an issue when the engine is running above idle.
    Issue 2: There is still a significant amount of play in the steering wheel up to a 1/4 turn without the tires moving.(thought power steering would stiffen up the steering)
    Issue 3: There is a significant thunk when i turn the wheel while the jeep isnt moving.
    Issue 4: Probably the biggest problem. When towing the jeep on a tow bar as i go around turns the tires wont turn to follow the path of my truck. Its as if the steering box wont allow the wheels to turn freely like they did when i towed it with manual steering.

    I did a bit of adjustment on the nut on top of the steering box to try to tighten up the steering but that didnt seem to work.
     
  2. Jan 8, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,104
    None of my Jeeps have PS but from what I read, Your steering box is bad.
     
  3. Jan 8, 2015
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    555
    Sounds like the pump has a hang up Is the belt super tight? If not make it so.

    As for the box issues? It sound a lot like mine when it was plum wore out.

    I have had very good luck with autozones steering gears for the cj's that I have had. Usually about $150 with your core.
     
  4. Jan 8, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,104
    Issue 2. 1/4 turn of play in the steering wheel? Even my Ross boxes aren't that bad.
    Timgr has posted a few times about rebuilding a Saginaw box so, do a search.
    As dsrt said, a rebuilt or new Saginaw steering box is fairly affordable.
     
  5. Jan 9, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,798
  6. Jan 9, 2015
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    555
    Let me save you a huge headache....

    Save the money and get a rebuilt unit. I am fairly mechanically inclined and always had issues with the worn parts in my boxes coming back to raise their ugly head after the rebuild. Sure they didn't leak anymore and had lots of pressure but they would snatch and grab here and there causing frustration. Or there would be a snag somewhere and then they would bleed pressure off at the wrong time.

    $144 is uber cheap even compared just to the frustration of trying to rebuild one of these things even IF all your hard parts are in good shape..
     
  7. Jan 9, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,798
    For under 150 bucks its a no brainer. Wanna buy that rebuild kit i have..hahaahahahahahah!
     
  8. Jan 9, 2015
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    1: Pump is going out

    2: Steering box worn out, do a rebuit. You could give a turn on the allen key on top of steering box to get rid of some but nottoo much turn because i can accelerate the worm.

    3: Pre-75 frame are open C channel, so you can see movement when turning the wheel at stop. Could be something in the suspension that make that noise.

    4: Really dont have a clue.
     
  9. Jan 9, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    I'd suggest a "dry park test". Wheels on ground, lightly turn steering wheel back and forth, but not enough to turn the wheels. Look for play in all components including steering box, tie rod ends, steering shaft/joints (common to wear), axle u-bolts, spring bushings, steering box mount, frame for flex, etc.
    DO NOT arbitrarily adjust the steering box by that top nut/bolt. Steering boxes can be adjusted, out of the vehicle. And there is a whole procedure to follow to do it correctly. If you overtighten that top bolt the steering box can bind and/or become more damaged than before. If it ends up being the steering box I'd suggest a good replacement unit as worn parts is what causes the gear boxes to get out of adjustment to begin with.
     
  10. Jan 9, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
    +1. Read the TSM. It specifically warns against adjusting the gear mesh (top screw) before you adjust the end play.
     
  11. Jan 9, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    Thanks Nick for steering this thread in the right direction...................Yes there is allot more to movement in the steering system other than a worn out gear box and those are addressed above...........and Yes the adjustment in the top of the box just pre-loads the ball bearings inside the sector shaft.........that adjustment is of minimal effect although it would signal excessive wear within those given components.
    #1 Perhaps the pump is worn out and at Idle does not have the pressure needed to move the system...........could also be pump speed via the wrong sized pulley but if this is a problem that has just gotten worst then one can assume wear and low pressure until RPM is increased.
    #2 Addressed above.
    #3 Is Probably your worn out parts talking to you as the play catches up to the command to move from the steering wheel.
    #4 Is this something New? or is this the first time you have tried towing it? When you or others did the install of the Power Steering did you center the gear Lock to Lock and then engage the Pittman arm in the strait ahead position? There is a "sweet spot" at dead center in the piston and valving system of the gear..........not getting that correctly placed means that the box cannot return to center based on the rolling resistance being placed upon it via the tire toe in values and castor in the axle to direct it to go straight ahead...........Castor would also be another place I would look..........needs about 5-7 degrees. Worn out Suspension either front or rear , extended shackles , loose U-bolts all have an effect on steering...........

    As far as buying a rebuilt gear..........if you only want to do this once go to a company or shop that specializes in doing this. I assume that gear box in that era would be a Series 800 Saginaw.........you can have that gear box valved to accommodate the type and style of driving you do.......meaning the box can be made to be quicker or slower in its reaction to the steering input signal..............A slower valving is good for a short wheel base vehicle that you drive on the freeway.......variable valving is also an option whereby the gear will be slow in the middle ( straight ahead ) but increasingly getting faster as you turn either Left or Right. Lots of options to make your vehicle better.
     
  12. Jan 9, 2015
    dsrt4

    dsrt4 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    555
    Seems if I read correctly this all seemed to really start when the swap was done correct?

    And you see no movement in the Pittman arm while moving it the small amount correct?

    Just get the stock rebuilt unit as stated at AutoZone. While there get a new pump and reuse your reservoir.
    Easy...done ...drive.
     
  13. Jan 9, 2015
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    You should add this too if it's not already done.

    Steering box brace

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jan 11, 2015
    CJ5USMC

    CJ5USMC New Member

    Pensacola FL
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    So the general consensus is that the box is bad. I was leaning towards that direction but figured I see if there were other problems that people had had. I am currently getting the radiator fixed as the steel mount fell off one side so ill see about getting the box replaced and might as well throw a fresh pump in there so that everything is new. As for the towing one of the issues after the power steering install is that the wheels never returned to center I always had to turn the wheel back in the other direction. Ill see about trying to find that sweet spot once I get the new pump.
     
  15. Jan 11, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    Have you checked for play in the components yet? If not DO THAT FIRST. Your steering box may be worn but you do not know that if you have not done the dry park test yet. It could be a number of things. The lack of returning to center can be play in the system, binding components, alignment issues (typically lack of positive caster, etc.).
    You need to verify the source(s) of the issue before arbitrarily throwing parts at it.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2015
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    That occur when you have a bad caster.

    When i did install my ram assist everyone told me i will loose the return to center thing. But having the caster set properly i never had this problem with the ram assist. You have to check if, put socket on top of upper ball joint nut, put a magnetic level and you will see the approx. caster you have. Suppose to be around 6-8 degree negative to work properly.
     
  17. Jan 15, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,529
    You want POSITIVE caster.
     
  18. Jan 15, 2015
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,115
    Oups thanks for correction
     
  19. Jun 15, 2019
    Andy Salagaj

    Andy Salagaj Joshua70x7

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    All I will add is that power steering is NICE when in tight circumstances and slow speed. That wagon wheel sized steering wheel is there for a reason - you need the extra power. When I went to power steering and brakes I took my 73 CJ5 into the modern age. It's worth it IMHO.
     
  20. Jun 15, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,486
    The steering shaft upper u-joint and lower bell shaped joint were both bad. I bought replacement components, then went ahead with Borgesen shaft anyhow. Couldnt see doing the power swap then sticking with original shaft which I do not figure to be as good as original (Crown). Also, the reproduction grease boot for the lower joint is made out of that stuff that simulates rubber. Except that its not flexible or durable. So really not at all like rubber.
     
New Posts