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Spin on oil filter

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by MC21609, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. Aug 27, 2007
    MC21609

    MC21609 New Member

    Lower Suwanee, GA
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
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    41
    I know this may be sacrilegious (I'm sure it would be on the g503 pages...) but can I replace my Cuno oil filter with a remote oil filter bracket (like this one) and a modern spin on oil filter? Has anyone done this? Does anyone know off the top of their head the size of the inlets and outlets on the Cuno?

    Thanks,
    David
     
  2. Aug 27, 2007
    Bill F

    Bill F Finally running

    Hillsboro NH
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    588
    You can but you wont see any improvement. The cuno filter is a good system as long as you maintain it. The oil filter system on these old motors is a bypase system anyways so what you have will work great. I do have a canister one on my m38 but wouldnt mind a Cuno.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2007
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    You can do it but you can't use any old filter with it, a full flow filter will do nasty things to your oil pressure. The outlet hole in the stock canister is only about .050" diameter, that lets the oil circulate through but keeps the gallery pressure up.


    H.
     
  4. Aug 27, 2007
    GreenKaiser

    GreenKaiser Flamed out again....

    Nashville, TN
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    I have a canister type full flow on my F-head but I hear here that people have good results with well-maintained bypass systems too. The full flow conversion gets interesting as you have to plug the factory pump outlet in the block and devise new plumbing to get the oil from the pump to the filter. Mine involved making a new pump gear cover plate with a port connected to the new filter head. Drilled and tapped the factory ports at either end of the block and have two lines going from the filter head to the block. An unexpected side benefit was that my hot oil pressture at idle jumped to 45 psi with no other mods.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2007
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
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    1,918
    Iv had mine since i first got the jeep and it works fine
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Aug 28, 2007
    MC21609

    MC21609 New Member

    Lower Suwanee, GA
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
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    41
    I had never considered the pressure loss! My next question was going to be replacing it with the civie cannister, but that has been answered too. I guess I will leave well enough alone and go read up on maintaining the Cuno.

    Thanks again,
    David
     
  7. Aug 28, 2007
    Bill F

    Bill F Finally running

    Hillsboro NH
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    588
    maintaining the cuno is easy, just give the handle a turn every once and a while, and every oil change pull the cover off and wipe out the inside.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2007
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    Got pics/diagrams of that? Writeup? Thats something I've thought about doing myself during the wee hours on those nights when I can't sleep. :rofl:


    H.
     
  9. Aug 30, 2007
    GreenKaiser

    GreenKaiser Flamed out again....

    Nashville, TN
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    47
    Actually I thought about doing a technical post on how my system works (Sparky said a post would be a good idea) but never got around to it. I'm an engineer that works on engines all day at work so my solution path probably would seem weird to most people. It and my gear reduction starter get a lot of stares at shows around here as most people aren't used to seeing external oil lines on an engine. I'll try to explain it here some - hope the picture helps.

    Since the oil inlet & outlet passages are in the block you will need to devise a way to pass oil externally to a filter of some description. I decided to plug the factory pump outlet and plumb a new external steel line to a filter in the stock location. Basically what I want to do is make the oil flow out the cover end of the pump instead of toward the block. This will let me pass it out the cover end of the pump and to a filter. Remove the oil pump, tap the hole in the block, and plug the delivery hole in the block with a pipe plug that has been Locktited in. Next, remove the factory line that is behind the fuel pump and drill the hole oversize for a 3/8" pipe to inverted flare 90 degree fitting. Do the same for the factory fitting at the rear of the block that has the line going to the head. Use a T fitting at the rear so you can tap oil for the cylinder head & oil pressure gauge. You'll find that things are really close at the front fiting if you are using a combination vacuum / fuel pump but things fit fine with the inverted flare nut arrangement.

    Now for the fun part: I made up a new oil pump gear cover out of three pieces of plate steel sandwiched together. These three plates are welded together and are drilled with holes that match the original cover so that some longer screws and copper washers can hold the plate onto the pump. The center plate has a large slot milled in it. This slot matches up with a hole in the plate closest to the oil pump and the location of this hole matches up with the output side of the gears. The outer plate has a hole in it that lines up with the slot in the center plate, and this plate has a compression fitting that mates to a 1/2" tube leading to the oil filter head. From the oil filter head there are two 3/8" tubes delivering filtered oil to the engine, one to the front fitting behind the fuel pump and the other to the rear of the block. My filter is mounted on a plate in the stock location just forward of the carb. I used a Motorcraft FL-1A filter.

    As I said, my oil pressure took a jump after installing this setup with no other mods to the relief spring. Hot oil pressure stays on 50 now and idling is about 45, even with a cam gear oiler nozzle with the big hole. The 1/2" pipe is much larger than the factory passages in the block plus it allows you to feed oil to both ends of the main galley at the same time.

    Hope this helps. The cover is a big job and is pretty intricate to make - it'll need lapping to get it perfectly flat after welding. I'll try to get some pix of the oil pump and cover plate the next time I have the floor out for some more insulating work.

    Whew! What a write up.....
     
  10. Aug 31, 2007
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    Let The Monday Morning Quarterbacking Begin: :twisted:

    O.K. so if i got this straight you've gone from the stock setup-

    [​IMG]


    To something like this-

    [​IMG]


    That right?


    Did you consider using one of the oil pumps with the relief valve in the cover?

    [​IMG]

    One of these might make the fabrication a bit easier, potentially going from milling slots to a simple drill & tap exercise:rofl:

    Anyhow it looks like you came up with a good mod, congratulations on it. :beer:


    H.
     
  11. Aug 31, 2007
    michigan_pinstripes

    michigan_pinstripes I'm not lost, I'm wandering

    Clarkston MI...
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    605
    I have pllllenty of oil pressure and I'm using a jumbo K&N remote filter mounted conventionally (filter hanging) on the head bracket.
     
  12. Aug 31, 2007
    GreenKaiser

    GreenKaiser Flamed out again....

    Nashville, TN
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    Wow, neat drawings Howard! I must apologize too! Now that I see your pictures of the pump I remember that my pump is the rotor style and not the gear type as it has the flat cover. Your drawings are correct about the connections but it appears in the lower drawing that the rear port where the original head oil line is connected is oiled off the rear cam bearing. This must be to provide a metering effect for the oil going to the head. My system feeds "unmetered" oil straight from the filter to the head connection.

    Are the two styles of pumps interchangeable? Wonder which one is more common. Ideally someone would start making an iron casting with a simple threaded connection to attach an oil line for an easy full flow system. I've run turbo Buick 231's in the past and ain't much on aluminum oil pumps.

    My big problem with these engines is all the leaks. I could write another article on using epoxy, studs, stover nuts, and Locktite to seal all these blasted through-tapped holes. Thinking about using Belleville washers and studs on my side cover to take up the expansion. Got the idea from a leaky valve cover retrofit kit I got for my Allis Chalmers.
     
  13. Sep 1, 2007
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    I can't really take credit for them, I just copied the drawing from the manual & MSPainted some colour into it.


    Yup, they are interchangeable. As far as I've been able to determine the gear pump is a L head piece.


    I had another thought last night (yes, I was trying to get to sleep R)) -

    Howzzabout drilling a hole in the appropriate spot on the cover for the outlet & making a body to screw in the hose fitting out of a (shaped like the cover) piece of UHMW plastic? Use some longer bolts to hold everything together. This stuff has a pretty good heat tolerance, I had to heat a piece to about 350 degrees to to get it bendy, immersion in boiling water didn't faze it at all.

    I just went with the cork gaskets :rofl:





    & lots & lots of silicone:twisted:


    H.
     
  14. Sep 2, 2007
    GreenKaiser

    GreenKaiser Flamed out again....

    Nashville, TN
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    47
    Figured you would be dreaming about creepy crawly foundation bugs instead of jeep oil pumps! R)

    Good idea but I'd probalby break the plastic part. I was thinking about making some kind of cover with an O-ring sandwitched between the original cover and this new cover that has the port in it but machining a groove like that for me is impossible. Another problem I had was that my headers (welded up my own set) wrapped so tight around the pump that about the only place for the oil outlet port was have the line outlet on an axis with the pump shaft facing back up at the valve cover. There isn't much space down there. Will try to post a photo this afternoon.

    The hole in my plate that matched up with the rotors wasn't really a hole, it was more like a crecent moon shape. If you pull the rotor gears out you will see a cavity cast into the pump that is something similar on the far end.
     
  15. Sep 2, 2007
    sammy

    sammy Coca-Cola?

    Albuquerque, NM
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    Jul 1, 2007
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    1,577
    Oil, who needs it anyway? :rofl: R)
    I don't want to change my oil filter. Somehow my family has a bad thing of after engine work we have little or no oil pressure... That and something that you may consider is authenticity, are you willing to go to the new improved or do you want to look original?
     
  16. Sep 7, 2007
    Hawkes

    Hawkes Member

    Nova scotia
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    Jun 18, 2003
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    490
    My '66 had a spin on oil filter, I thought it was factory? :?
     
  17. Jan 3, 2008
    mlg123

    mlg123 New Member

    Deer Park, TX
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    I have been reading posts around here & I am very interested in this modification.

    Do you have the part number & source for that pump?

    I've got a "60 CJ5 (F-134) that a PO has removed the oil filter from. I don't know how long it has been run that way but it can't be good for it & I feel that the bypass filtration is not really much more effective either.

    Another issue is that after unknown years of running without a filter, the engine is full of gunk (found this out when I replaced the dizzy). The engine runs fine & has good compression but is there a way to clean out some of the gunk build up without having to tear into the engine? (it doesn't really need a rebuild yet)

    Thanks for any help,
    MLG
     
  18. Jan 3, 2008
    mlg123

    mlg123 New Member

    Deer Park, TX
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Do you have any kind of rough drawings or a step by step of how you plumbed the pump to the external filter?

    Did you just drill & tap a hole in the block just above the oil pan & install fittings inside & out?

    Or, is there a better way?

    I'm very intersted in this modification as my old unit has no filtration at all (see my other reply in this thread).


    Also, sorry about the duplicate reply earlier, I'm not used to the software rules of this forum.
    MLG
     
  19. Jan 3, 2008
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    8,102
    The later style pump is pn 804484. Walcks lists these @ $114.00 bucks but the picture shows the earlier style pump. :rofl: ^They *might* have both been under the same part # but that just doesn't seem likely, probably a mistake with the oic..

    H.
    .
     
  20. Jan 3, 2008
    drexotic

    drexotic Happy now?!?!?

    San Diego
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