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Steering linkage clearance

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FinoCJ, May 29, 2014.

  1. May 29, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Creating a different thread here for a question about steering linkage clearance of the leaf spring I noticed when messing with the shackles. The traditional 2-piece tie-rod steering linkage has been replaced with a solid tie-rod and a 'drag-link' from the bell crank to a direct connection with the tie rod (do NOT have a two hole closed knuckle). The tie-rod is mounted on the 'underside' of the knuckle and the drag-link connection to the tie-rod just has clearance issues with the top of the leaf spring (specifically the spring stack clamp).

    [​IMG]

    Is it possible to flip the tie-rod over and mount the tie-rod on top of the knuckle? That would give plenty of clearance above the leave spring. Is there a reason this should not be done? I am probably missing something obvious - the drag link to tie-rod mount get flipped around and might create some alignment issues with the bellcrank arm, and the steering stabilizer would also need to be remounted to the new underside. One upside I see is a reduction in the drag link angle. thanks all
     
  2. May 29, 2014
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    I believe there is a kit to do that. You have to ream the knuckle for the taper of the tie rid end. I posted in your shackle thread, those definitely look like lift springs.
     
  3. May 29, 2014
    68BuickV6

    68BuickV6 Well-Known Member

    Hesperia, CA.
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    My tie rod end actually strikes my leaf springs preventing full turn. Under articulation it gets to full turn and gets pulverized by the leaves.

    Why not just to a tie rod flip?

    http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm
     
  4. May 29, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Is clearance any better with a two-hole knuckle? Wagoneers and J-trucks use a knuckle with two holes in the steering arm, which eliminates the special tie rod end that the drag link attaches to. If you can find one, it should be cheap or free.
     
  5. May 29, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    We get $50-$75 each for them depending on whether cleaned up and painted or greasy and generally sell them quick...

    To the OP,
    The tie rod flip definitely gives more clearance and has been done by many on here. Some caster shims can help as well as it will rotate the axle giving more clearance between the tie rod end and spring. Check your caster first. If 4 degrees or less you can benefit from more caster anyway. I prefer 6-7 degrees positive caster. If caster is good then either the flip kit or two hole knuckle. Making the drag link longer is never a bad thing IMHO as ut decreases bump steer and it wl get the tre away from the spring.
     
  6. May 29, 2014
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I have a similar set up on mine-stock D27 axle with BDS 2.5" springs & 1 piece tie rod. I have a set of Mcruff's 4 degree shims, and the tie rods don't hit the springs.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. May 29, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yes - will check caster angle and report back. What would be too much positive caster? more than 8 degrees? One of the problems with the old long shackles was creating too much positive caster - or at least I thought.

    Since I don't completely understand... increasing the caster (if needed) will rotate the top of the axle forward, but I don't see how that will create more clearance between the tie rod and the top of the leaf spring. Assuming the top of knuckle (and tre mounts) also rotate forward (and slightly down) with increasing caster they would actually get closer to the leaf spring? Guessing I am confused... thanks

    going to be OOTO for a while - will check on caster and see if it makes more sense when I get back home tonight.
     
  8. May 29, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Positive caster will tilt the axle backwards from above, making more clearance for the springs. Adding longer shackles reduces the caster.
     
  9. May 29, 2014
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
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    I have a similar situation on my 2A. If I get interference, I plan on a 1/2" shim between the spring and the spring pad on the axle. A little additional height should correct any issues.
     
  10. May 29, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I don't like more than 7 degrees positive caster. What you are describing is negative caster or less positive caster. Positive caster is the tilt back of the steering axis of the wheel/knuckle from vertical. In simpler terms, if you draw a line through the knuckle pivot points and it angles toward the rear at the top that is positive caster. If it angles towards the front of the vehicle at the top that is negative caster. If it's perfectly vertical that is 0 degrees caster. A simple angle finder on the top or bottom of the knuckle can give you an idea of your caster angle.
     
  11. May 29, 2014
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks - I was completely backwards on positive vs negative caster. So, yeah getting more positive caster would help create the extra bit of clearance that might be enough to solve the problem. I don't need much - it clears normally, but with a lot of articulation (like the jack under one front wheel) the drag link connection to the tre was not clearing.

    Follow-up question: How do the shims work, or rather where do they go? I assume they go on top of the leaf spring and under the perch (traditional spring under set-up) and thus the thick end of the wedge would go forward? Couldn't see it in Doug's pic.
     
  12. May 29, 2014
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    [​IMG]

    Its the part with surface rust on it between the spring and axle.
     
  13. May 29, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Spring center bolt goes through the shim.

    Mcruff makes some excellent shims.
     
  14. May 29, 2014
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yep! Whatever you do , don't use aluminum/diecast shims. They have a very short life and when they do fall out there can be enough slack to pop the end off the spring bolt, not to mention some interesting handling characteristics.
     
  15. May 29, 2014
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    The answer to that is yes. The double tie rod end isn't straight so using that puts a slight downward kink in the assembly whereas a double hole knuckle is straight the full length. As to the original post, I don't actually think there will be a clearance issue. You don't get much flex near the center of the spring and my bet will be that won't hit. That said, I did have problems with that arrangement and the Rancho 2.5" springs-solved by a 2 hole knuckle.
     
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