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Warn M2 Hubs

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by mickeykelley, May 20, 2018.

  1. May 27, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Yep, you're correct, Glenn. I found that on a Power Wagon website, though no hub model numbers were listed on it.

    But speaking of model numbers.....

    On the same site, I also found the page below from what appears to be an early to mid-70's Warn catalog (unlike the others above, this one didn't have a year on it). Though it doesn't list any of the Warn hubs for Jeeps, as they were in a separate catalog, what's interesting is that it does detail the re-numbering of many previous W-series model numbers to M-series model numbers. Note the columns under the headings of "Old Number" and "New Number":

    [​IMG]

    So, it seems extremely likely that the Warn hub models for Jeeps followed this same pattern, and that the M1, M2, and M3 models were likewise re-numbered from previous WL- and WO-series model numbers.

    Maury
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  2. May 27, 2018
    Keys5a

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    The application list above is both interesting and informative. Its at least from 1964-up due to the Kaiser Jeep reference. I find it interesting to see "Datsun Patrol" when I've always seen the vehicles as Nissan Patrol, even well before Nissan was commonly known in the US.
    I have an old set of Warn hubs from a '69 Land Rover, so need to dig them out to see the numbers on them.
    From the litho information in the lower corner, form 366-25, could that be 3 (March) of 1966?
    -Donny
     
  3. May 27, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Anything's possible of course, but the reason I tend to think the Warn catalog it came from dates from some point in the '70's is the page below. It comes from a catalog (shown in its entirety earlier in this thread) for Warn Jeep hubs that's dated 1968:

    [​IMG]

    The Jeep hubs shown in this '68 catalog page are still numbered with WL- and WO- numbers. I actually also have an image of the pretty much identical corresponding page from a 1969-dated catalog.

    It stands to reason that Warn would have done the re-numbering of all the Warn hubs from W- to M- numbers together - i.e. at one time - which is why I think the page above indicating this re-numbering must be from a somewhat later catalog.

    All of that said...you may be right!

    Maury
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  4. May 27, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Yeah, since it says Kaiser it must be mid '60s. Datsun name has stuck in my mind forever, I remember the advertisement in the '60s about the Datsun B-210 driving from coast to coast and how economical it was on fuel. It is also interesting that you could only get the hubs for a Jeep through a Jeep dealer. Also IHC isn't on that list?
     
  5. May 27, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Interesting and entirely possible theory on your part Maury. :beer:
     
  6. May 27, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    No, you guys must be right....you're definitely correct that Warn would not have referred to it as Kaiser Jeep after AMC's purchase of Jeep in 1970.

    So maybe Warn re-numbered its Jeep vehicle hubs later than its hubs for other vehicles for some reason? (Maybe not until after Kaiser sold Jeep to AMC?)

    In any case, here's the entire catalog. Looking at it again, it does look pretty similar to the 1964-dated catalog I posted earlier. I'd agree that it likely does date from 1966:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  7. May 27, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    I definately think this will come in handy. Thanks.
     
  8. May 28, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    For those who aren't already familiar with them, the "Summer Hub" mullen46cj2a refers to was Warn's initial entry into the field of vehicle hubs, before it got into locking models. After WWII in the mid to late 1940's, the public purchased thousands of ex-military Willys MBs and Ford GPWs, as well as Willys' new CJ2a. In response to this growing market, Arthur Warn designed the first free-wheel Warn Hub Caps. These became known as Summer Hubs, since that's when they were typically used as they effectively converted a vehicle from 4WD to 2WD.

    This was posted eWillys:

    Apparently there was some early resistance to using the first generation of the Warn hubs, because jeep owners felt they’d purchased their jeeps for the four wheel drive capability. The initial hubs turned the jeeps into two wheel drive, which some owners felt defeated the whole point of owning a jeep. However, through education and marketing, the Warn folks slowly turn naysayers into advocates.

    From a 1995 Field & Stream Magazine article:

    [​IMG]

    As the Jeep line quickly evolved, the Warn Hub Caps were adapted to fit other Willys vehicles as well. Here are photos of a few artifacts from that general time frame:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  9. May 28, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    I also found this info on eWillys regarding the "5-ring" hubs. Apparently the 5-ring design was indeed the earliest locking hub manufactured by Warn, in 1953.

    These were the first locking/unlocking hubs Warn developed. These were advertised as early as October of 1953 in the Popular Mechanics:


    upload_2018-5-28_16-6-53.jpeg


    This 1955 brochure, again from eWillys, differentiates the Automatic WA-1 hub and the 5-ring "Semi-automatic", which was in fact the WL-2 hub (not the WL-1 as I'd previously suspected):

    [​IMG]


    Here's a larger excerpt of the text from above:

    [​IMG]


    Also from eWilllys is the very interesting article below on the Warn Manufacturing Co. (A larger, more readable version of the article than I could get to upload is viewable on eWilllys at Early Warn Manufacturing Co. History ).

    This May 1957 Willys News article provides some interesting history about the Warn Manufacturing Company:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  10. May 28, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Thanks Maury!
     
  11. Jun 2, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Donny, I think I may have found the reason the IH vehicles didn't show up in the 1960's Warn catalogs. Take a look near the end of the second post in this thread: A Brief History Of Early Warn Hubs For Jeeps
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  12. Jun 4, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    I just came across this thread showing a rebuild of a set of M2 hubs, and thought it might be helpful to you: Care and feeding of Warn M2 Hubs
     
  13. Jun 12, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    To add to the detail history, it appears the older models use a standard flat bladed screw to hold the brass knob on and don't have the raised flat area stamped with the model number in the finger grip area. At some point Warn went to an Allen screw for the brass knob and added the raised area for a model number.
     
  14. Sep 24, 2018
    tripilio

    tripilio Proud American!

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    Does any one have a part number/source for the two o-rings?
     
  15. Sep 25, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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  16. Sep 25, 2018
    tripilio

    tripilio Proud American!

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    Does anyone knows the reason why the o-ring on the locking mechanism has a special profile? When I disassembled mine (probably bubba-touched) and it has a regular round profile ring in it. The main reason for that o-ring is just to seal from external contamination. Please, enlighten me.:watch:
     
  17. Sep 26, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    The one set I took apart had round O rings but was not easy to turn the knob. But that may have been due to the yuck accumulation of years. No way to tell if was original or not.
     
  18. Sep 26, 2018
    tripilio

    tripilio Proud American!

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    IMHO, the round o-ring has a punctual contact axially with the mating surface, same as a chamfered ring. The only contact for every point of the circumference is the little section of the radius of the o-ring or the lip, in case of the chamfered. The square profile ring has full contact on the whole width with the mating surface. It seals better but the friction value increases several times. Since we have little or no pressure to contain, I don't expect a tremendous difference between the regular o-ring and the original with the lip. But I have been wrong before...:blah:
     
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  19. Oct 13, 2018
    Chilly

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    Always and only had Warn locking hubs where one turns the knob to engage or disengage. How did the automatics work?
     
  20. Oct 13, 2018
    tripilio

    tripilio Proud American!

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    BTW, I found some o-rings in Mc Master that "almost" fit perfectly. I mounted it on the dial part and very lightly ran it all around on the sander. Just enough to give it a slightly flat surface that allowed the o ring to enter the cavity and it worked like a charm! If anybody needs a set, I will be more than happy to provide it.
     

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