What Was Originally Attached To The Firewall Here?

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by maurywhurt, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Jan 9, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    What was the rectangular plate attached to the firewall below the serial number plate and next to the heater? Here's a picture of mine (as "modified" by the PO):

    [​IMG]


    This partial enlargement from one of Howard Eisenhauer's excellent drawings shows something he called "TM" in that spot:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jan 9, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    "Trade Marque Registrada"
     
  3. Jan 9, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Thanks, Howard!

    Any idea where I could find a photo of that plate?
     
  4. Jan 9, 2018
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Been looking for 1 but no luck. I know I still have one kicking around somewheres but not sure where. :(
     
  5. Jan 9, 2018
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

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    Is there a pic of that part anywhere?
     
  6. Jan 9, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Okay, thanks, Howard. I'll also ask Robert at Dataplates4U if he reproduces those plates.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    I haven't heard back from Robert yet, but think I found a photo online of his reproduction of the missing plate.

    I'll get him to confirm the dimensions of this plate, and compare those to the measurements between the (filled) holes in my firewall.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  8. Jan 10, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    From Robert (dataplates4u@gmail.com):


    I have the plate with Jeep in stock (stock is limited, when they are gone I will not make new ones) and it will fit on the fire wall.

    Originally these plates were pressed from behind. This plate is etched in aluminum, the back side is flat.

    Size: 2.75 inch x 4.5 inch

    The price for this plate is $39.50 USD plus shipping costs.



    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jan 10, 2018
    Keys5a

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    My '64 Tux, nor my '66 CJ5 have those holes. In fact, I have only seen the plate in photos. If you notice in the photo of the red firewall, the model is an 8310 as opposed to an 8305. An 8310 is a Diesel (Perkins?) model. My understanding is this plate was only used on export models.
    Maury, Is your CJ5 a domestic model, or could it be a Canadian import? Unless yours was imported back to the USA, I have my doubts whether your holes held this plate. I have seen a US Government brass data plate in close to that location on Parkway Green Park Service Jeeps. I have one on my Sedan Delivery. If you are interested, I could measure the screw pattern.
    -Donny
     
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  10. Jan 10, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    My '67 CJ5 was purchased new in Shelby, NC by a man named Clyde Trammel in the fall of 1966. I bought it in 2009 from his son-in-law, who inherited it when Mr. Trammel passed away in 1970.

    It was definitely never a Government-owned vehicle, so it's unlikely it would have had one of the associated Gov't brass data plates.

    All I know for sure is that at least some jeeps did have these "Trademark" plates in that location, and that the screw holes in my jeep's firewall (from which I removed the silicon sealant applied there by the PO and measured today) correspond to the hole locations in this plate.

    My question is, if my jeep didn't have one of these plates....then what would it more likely have had there instead?


    It could be that the answer is "nothing at all"....which would logically indicate that the holes were drilled / punched in all CJ firewalls during the time frame when mine was built, but were used to attach these plates only on vehicles built for export.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. Jan 10, 2018
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor

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    I could not find photos of my 67 that had high enough resolution to see if it had the holes. My 70 has these holes and has never had anything attached. Although previously owned by the Army I there is no indication that anything was there. The dash decal indicates this was an August 1970 build date.

    [​IMG]
    My 65 does not appear to have the predrilled holes for a dataplate. It is a late 1964 build IIRC. It had a heater delete plate which shows in the lower left corner.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  12. Jan 10, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    Note that the serial plate on your '70 says "Jeep Corporation" as opposed to "Kaiser Jeep Corporation", which, if I'm not mistaken, would indicate that it was built after Kaiser sold Jeep to AMC in 1970. ....and AMC would not have installed a Kaiser Jeep Corp-marked item like that trademark plate in any case.

    However, those four mounting holes may have remained in production for some time afterward, even though they would have been obsolete at that point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  13. Jan 10, 2018
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor

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    It appears my 67 had the holes for this dataplate. If you look to the left of where the heater was removed you can see two holes. I don't think anything was mounted on this one either - just the holes.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jan 10, 2018
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor

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    True. I believe the sale was February 1970.
     
  15. Jan 11, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    FWIW my '60 doesn't have those holes either. Maybe they had production runs of firewalls with them and made excess of what was ordered at a particular time?
     
  16. Jan 11, 2018
    Keys5a

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    If interested, the brass government tags hole pattern is 4 7/8" wide by 3 1/2" top to bottom. I'm curious if this matches the holes punched adjacent to the serial tag?
    For what its worth, I double-checked the firewall on my '66 CJ5 and there are no extra holes.
    -Donny
     
  17. Jan 11, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    The holes in my firewall are slightly closer together than the holes in the government tag would be.

    Robert said his reproduction plate is 4-1/2" wide x 2-3/4" high. The spacing between the holes in my firewall measure just inside those dimensions; in other words, they would correspond to the mounting hole locations in a plate that size.


    [​IMG]


    I think it isn't so much a question of whether or not these firewall holes were intended to accept these particular plates, but rather whether or not these plates were factory-installed only on Jeeps built for export.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  18. Jan 13, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Sponsor Sponsor

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    I took some time and scratched a good deal more of the prior-owner-applied silicon sealant and black paint off from in and around the holes in question on my '67 today. The original factory yellow paint on the firewall was then visible enough to tell that there was no outline of a plate visible around the holes:

    [​IMG]

    Even more telling is the fact that the metal inside the holes was likewise painted yellow, indicating that no screws had ever been installed in them:

    [​IMG]

    So, I think it's a very good bet there was never a Registered Trademark / Marca Registrada / Marque Deposee plate on my jeep. I'm guessing that Donny's understanding as noted above is probably correct, and that these plates were installed by the factory only on jeeps being exported.

    I also confirmed with my brother in law today that his '67 has this same hole pattern in the firewall, but no plate. Both of our jeeps were built in the latter half of 1966, so it may very well be that all CJ5s built during that time frame had these firewall holes.

    It would be interesting to find out if US-destined, later-manufactured '67s through the remainder of the Kaiser years also have them, but likewise had no plates installed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  19. Jan 14, 2018
    WYOMIKE

    WYOMIKE Oct 1971 pic Sponsor

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    Mine 71 did not have the plate, but the holes are there so in 71 the fire walls still had them.
    Here is a picture of my wire wall when I stripped it to rebuild a couple of years ago and you can see the holes.

    Mike[​IMG]
     
  20. Jan 14, 2018
    kaiser krawler

    kaiser krawler kaiser krawler Sponsor

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    My 1970 has a plate in that spot that says Kaiser of Canada. If you search the forum for
    Canadian cj 5 post 17 shows a good picture of the plate. i will try to link to that post, not sure
    it will work, but i'll give it a shot. Canadian Cj5??
     

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