1969(ish) CJ-5 Project

First of all i`d like to introduce myself as Carlos in the Central Valley in Northern California. I am Just south of Modesto, and a couple hours from everything else, SF, Sac, Fresno, etc. I have been lurking here since I first laid eyes on this Jeep and have since clicked through more than 75 pages of threads & searches looking for useful information.

I picked up this heap about a week ago and am still digesting it as it is my first CJ-5, but nowhere near my first Jeep. The kid who had it could not figure out how to fix the oil leak on the v8 - one of my pics below shows a very obvious crack that seems to have happened during a hard hit from the front axle to the oil filter, I picked up a replacement oil filter adapter/pump cover part for $15 at a wrecking yard. Oil leak below the front axle is from the Marvel Mystery Oil I dumped in there to "flush" it out, also split a quart between all the cylinders for the past week.

The known details:
Price: $750 (barely worth it)
1969 CJ-5
Kaiser of Canada Tag/VIN: 8305C17 350748
Engine: AMC 304
Trans: Not sure - 3 speed though
Case: Not sure - does have twin style action but a single stick - for now
Rear Axle: Dana 44, centered, one piece shafts
Front: Not sure
Ratio: 3.73
Hubs: Selectro
Tires: 33" AT
Steering: Manual - welded nut on the column
Sets: Who knows, terribly rigged mounts - no access to toolbox.
Side Plates: 1/4" steel plate on the side only, does not extend under the tub - could be covering rust.
Frame: Good condition, no rot whatsoever, two known cracks, solid basis.
Drivetrain: Good clean condition, unsure of driveability.
Rust: Plenty on the tub only, and some half assed previous repairs.
Paint: Not original, but the original color does seem to have been Prairie Gold as evidenced in hard to reach areas.
Registration: Non-Op (whew)
Spider & Yellow Jackets: Plenty

I am researching how to identify the transmission & t-case, and i`m desperately hoping the open knuckle but drum brake front end is a Dana 30.

There is a very bad 3 inch body lift on this Jeep right now. Bad in so many ways. First of all, many of the body mounts/subframe are rusted away so the 3 inch pucks (more like soda cans) are resting directly on thin sheetmetal, this has led to the body being tweaked in a few areas, but nothing impossible to straighten out & weld in some replacement subframe pieces & floor sheetmetal. I picked up some .063" rectangular tubing to rebuild the subframe, thoughts?

The mysteries i`ve uncovered so far - The body tub somewhat seems to match the year specified, however the drivetrain does not - the drivetrain does look very factory though - No hack job on the motor mounts, etc. So the best that I can tell - someone dropped this tub on a newer chassis & drivetrain.

I also have a few questions for those who can spot things from my pics:

First, didn't 1969 have a fuel tank under the drivers seat? This one has a very cleanly installed rear tank & plumbing on the rear passengers corner, like later models. The spot where the filler would have been is very clean and probably never patched. Also the pedals seem to be mounted different than other 1969's i`ve seen.

Next, how can I identify the trans & t-case? I am having trouble deciphering the stamps and tags, etc - very little information found online as well.

And then - is there any telltale way to identify a front Dana 30? I have read that 25, 27, and 30's all have the same cover and so forth, this one does look virtually identical to the 30 on my YJ and XJ though. I will pull the cover and check the spline count soon.. but hoping to hear of another way to check.

And my last question - the 4 or 5 holes on the side of drivers side of the tub, were these originally used for the seat brackets? I really would like to find some original style brackets for both sides as mine have been hacked up real bad. (few inches of schedule 40 "pipe" and large washers...)

First things first.. getting it running - then i`ll begin glass bead blasting the rust in the floors to see what I need to cut away and rebuild from scratch. I spent several evenings recently getting my blast pot setup to work wonders on rusty metal - I have a huge compressor, but can still run the glass bead at 20 psi and it rips away anything I point it at. This tub has body filler caked on in some areas - even when it seems that the body is straight underneath, I think a PO tried to smooth out every minor flaw before selling it to another PO.

I am interested in a Resto-Mod sort of build, with lockers and a slight 2.5 inch spring lift, with the addition of tiny shackles (3/4" net) and worse case scenario a 1 inch body lift installed with new body mounts.

And future mods might include - low gears in t-case - hacked YJ cage to complete a full cage - narrowed high pinion dana 44 for front, in exactly the same width as stock, with high steer and so forth, I happen to have the parts! I have a Premier Power Welder & York Compressor that will both find their way onto this AMC 304. And i`d be thrilled to find one of those Meyers hard tops I keep seeing on this forum. Beyond that I want to keep it mild and a sort of offroad sleeper. I have to say that "Curly" did a fantastic job on his white Jeep and is very similar to what i`m interested in, but with a little more offroad leaning.

If anyone has any "correct" parts for sale please let me know, I need almost everything at this point.

Please, anyone who likes can add pictures to this build thread to help point out features.

Thanks for any info, I will keep this thread updated as long as I own this Jeep!

 

Now some pics... I resized and hosted these on my server to hopefully keep download speed to a maximum. All pics are clickable for the original size - very large.

Click here: http://www.mrcarlito.com/cj-5/first-pics-2009-06-19/ for a complete view of the first set of photos.

 

Thanks for the welcome. My pics seem to be awaiting moderation, so here are some more for the time being:

http://www.mrcarlito.com/cj-5/first-pics-2009-06-19/

 

Interesting, that is what i`m beginning to think as well - it also has the longer front fenders/hood, right? I was just browsing another thread and even the Jeep stamp does not look the same on mine vs another 1969.

 

Adding to the mystery with this jeep, I pulled the dash to trace some wiring nightmares and found 3 of those rectangular dash light indicators, and a hose that leads to a small nozzle on the cowl for windshield wipers. Does anyone know what these indicators might have indicated? They are just plastic boxes at this point. I am going to buy a standard Haynes or Chilton manual to hopefully help me trace the wiring issues.

For some reason, when turning the key to start the starter never stops til the battery dies, first time this happened I quickly unplugged the keyed ignition and it continued, so I guess it could be the ignition control module, the wiring is terrible though, so need to trace/fix/solder alot of wires before I start replacing whole parts.

 

Another update - today I finished repairing the most basic section of wiring harness - ignition/key switch to solenoid, and was able to get the 304 to start and run. It seems to have some exhaust leaks and noise that I hope is attributed to the exhaust leaks. In the coming days and weekends I will figure out the rest of the wiring harness and get everything else working while looking for a new or used windshield. Upcoming projects are going to be restoring the body/hat braces and rust repair - as well as fabbing new seat brackets. Might take this thing to the mountains on July 4 for a very mild leg stretching session and to see how well it runs in the real world before getting in too deep on repairs that might disable it.

 

Some body work started, but unfinished as of now. Someone welded the huge contraption into the bed to hold up the body. The moment I cut through the 4 or so bolts and 4 welds, the body dropped about 2 inches since nothing is holding it up. Remember this pile has a 3 inch body lift and all the hat channels are gone at the body mounts, so its about a 2 inch body lift bolted directly to the replacement sheetmetal someone added.

So, what next? Should I simply replace the floor and rebuild the wheel tubs to create some new pinch seams? Then replace all hat channels with capped .95 wall rectangular tubing? Or should I take it a step further and fab a new floor with a bead roller, and fab some new hat channels with a press brake? Both tools i`m considering adding to my collection before a tube bender.

I have no intention of ever running a seat again, I simply need room for my Golden Retriever and probably a fuel cell.

I am going to beadblast this disaster before I go any further.

Also note the bondo that reaches 3 or 4 layers and up to a quarter of an inch thick in places. Yes, that rear sill with the hinges is a massive chunk of angle iron possibly 1/4" thick as well.

Pics:

 

The Dana 25/27 had closed knuckles. Yours looks like a 30 with open knuckles. I didn't think the 69 could fit a 304 in the engine compartment. I have to agree that it looks like a 72-75. It also looks like the master cylinder is on the firewall, not the frame like the earlys. Nice jeep. Definately worth the money.

 

Thanks, its very interesting how it ended up being an intermediate on an early title. Maybe the original one rusted away completely, or maybe one of them was stolen, who knows as this particular Jeep was brought here from Canada in its current state. Anything could have happened back in Canada I guess.

 

I cut out the rear floor today, just roughly for now, leaving a little material in case I need to reference it or even use it during the rebuild.

One pic will show the 3/4" x 1.5" tubing I intend to use to replace the original & long gone hat channels. I will be using three or even four pieces of this on the rear floor alone. First one will be right behind the front seats - second one in place of an original hat channel, third being the actual body mounts and fourth replacing the huge 1/4" angle that a PO welded in with a stick welder. Funny thing about some of these welds is that I could break them with a cold chisel and very little effort, rather then cutting out a large area around them.

So next big thing will be to determine the type of floor I should use. The wheel tubs will be rebuilt before anything else, then a piece of capped square tube welded along the bottom of the wheel tub where a pinch seam would have been from factory. Welded to the square tube will be the rectangular tubing spanning across the frame and connecting the two wheel tubs together.

The remainder of this part of the project will be a Frankenstein event. I intend to use very little or no body filler after I grind down the welds & blast it with high build primer.

Does anyone happen to have a pic of where the body mounts are *supposed* to be? I didnt have any back here.. everything was rusted through. The two on the frame are very obvious, but beyond that I cannot tell what is supposed to be here from the bulkhead back.

PICS:

 

What, no pics of the spiders and yellow jackets????

Um, you have something in ur oil funnel.........

 

Wow! and i thought Ihad a lot of work to do. sounds like you have a plan and skills to get the job done.grat lookin project.




mike s.

 

The body in that condition would be a dream. My 67 looks a lot like this project!

 

Yeah i`d love to have that body! I checked out a tub at a body shop today that I was visiting and couldnt believe how great it was yet 20 years older than mine. They were cutting out the fenders & working them to look factory.

I did end up grabbing a bead roller & did some practice runs, although the beads will be about 1/4" narrower than factory - it will hold up nicely with the extra floor braces. Only my dog will be back there anyway. I also found an inexpensive Grizzly brake for doing a few of the bends that I need to patch on the tub fender box things.

Some more pics from a couple hours Saturday:














With some luck I won`t need much or any body filler. I may try a couple coats of high build primer.









Still got the toolbox:



Not anymore:


Can't wait for the sheet metal brake:




Inner Fender view:


Grinding started:


Ran out of grinding discs for die grinder:


Will resume next weekend I guess. Need to do the same on the opposite fender, then attach the two sides with my 3/4" x 1.5" spreader tubing - and in the end will have it all framed up and bolted to body mounts on the frame.

 

Made a lot of progress today. The tubing frame idea proved to be very stout and inexpensive as opposed to buying new hat channels. I am impressed with how sturdy it is so far, it is not yet bolted to the frame or anything but it tied the two sides together incredibly. Welding in the new floor will really strengthen things up from here. I am going to drill & sleeve the tubing where the body mount bolts will be, to avert any crushing of the tubing.

Total material investment in this Jeep so far: $40-50. Thats for a 4x5 ft sheet of 18 ga & 20 ft of 3/4x1.5 & 20 ft of 3/4x3/4 tubing that will be used everywhere. I will need some more sheet when I begin the front floors.

I also spent about $10 on sanding discs.

And about $400 on various tools that will be used for all levels of fabrication on this Jeep and unlimited other projects. Add these tools to what I already had and i`m getting setup pretty good. I also picked up a good quality auto darkening hood to assist with the sheet metal stop/starts. I can weld brackets all day with a normal hood but it was very difficult on these tack & short run welds.

Next: Patching in the little spaces on the fenders. Rolling the floor. Replacing the massive Angle Iron at the rear. Then moving on to the front floors! This thing will be driveable very soon. Luckily i`ll only need a soft top here in CA to drive a little over the winter. Parts of this tub has been sandblasted for more than a month and showing little signs of surface rust. I`ll blast it again before priming though to be safe.

Once I have the body roughed out & epoxy primed, i`ll start thinking about the light knock in the engine. Wrist pin? PITA?


PICS:

Beginning of the day:


Layers of Bubba Fab Inc & Bondo:


This patch was so poorly installed that I simply pried it off with a big screw driver, most of the welds snapped:



Cutting finished:


Patch started:


Tubing installed:


Spreader tacked in place:


I cut about 3/4" off the 3" body lift & stuck them under the spreader to hold the body up for now. Everything is right on.. previously the body lift was bolted right to the sheet metal, so taking some off proves that all the measurements are very close. Time to find some hockey pucks!

 

Hey,

Your project is looking great !

Have you considered using etch primer after sandblasting ? It will seal and prevent corrosion from reoccurring. It is fairly inexpensive and goes a long ways.. the stuff I have used is green, and it is very thin. So, when you do your metal work, just grind it off lightly where you need to weld or do body filler work.

There is also weld though primer that can be used where you do your spot welds, it is applied on the backside of the clean metal that you spot weld together to prevent rust. Since once spot welded, you cant get to the bare metal and seal it.