Timing, firing help please....

That sounds just like my problem, that we fixed by pulling the distributor, and rotating the gears a few teeth. If you can measure distance in teeth.

 

John do you think the PO had the dist. off 180deg?

I would appear that #1 would need to move around to 3:00-4:00 position to move the timing mark close to the scale. The opposite of 3-4:00 would put the #1 close to 10:00 where it should be.

Would this thing run at all being 180 out?

 

easy check...

pull #1 plug, rotate engine until timing marks line up (0*) on pullys and the #1 piston is at top of stroke, look at rotor & see where it's pointing - it should be right there at the #1 terminal.

hth

 

It's all coming back to me now. Before installing the distributor, we turned the engine over with a pull wrench, until the #1 piston, was at the top. This in turn put the harmonic balancer timing mark, right @ 0 BTDC. Then we inserted the distributor in the hole in the close proximity of having the #1 where it was when we removed it. We fired it up, but couldn't get it timed. We bottomed out both directions and it wouldn't get there. We pulled the distributor and rotated the teeth on the distributor a few clicks and reinserted it. This time it timed very easily. Before that it was horribly rough. I wish I could speak in mechanical terms with you so you'd understand better. Sorry

 

Ok...I know this is getting old for you guys but I really appreciate your help.

I checked and I am not out 180. Bear in mind my Dist Cap has the plug numbers marked on it.

#1-setup

Plugs: Proper location on cap

Dwell: 30

Idle: 1000RPM couldn't go lower without stalling

Run: Seemed to run OK, I did drive around the block

Start: Seemed ok

Vacume: steady 20in

Timing: Mark location is around 40 deg ATDC.

Distributor: No clockwise adjustment (hits manifold)

As far as running and power this seemed the best set-up but I had no further timing adjustment by turning the dist. (not sure I needed any based on running but notice the timing mark location?

#2-setup

Plugs: Moved clockwise 1 position on cap

Dwell: 30

Idle: 750, slight missing

Run: no power, occasional backfire, undriveable

Start: Seemed ok

Vacume: fluctuates 15in

Timing: 5 deg BTDC, OK

Distributor: Adjustable, but VA points directly at fan


You see the problem I have? #1 set-up is the best, but the timing mark is not even close to spec. and I have a problem getting the idle low enough.

#2 setup I can get all the specs on mark but it runs rough, has now power and is undrivable.

Tidbits: At TDC the rotor button points directly between the fan and Alternator. Seems a little to far clockwise to me.

With #1 being the best doesn't it appear to you guys that maybe it has jumped a tooth on the timing gear?

I guess with #1setup the idle problem could be a carb issue. I guess it could also be a problem with #2set-up as well.

Also, notice the vacume on #1 v #2, #1 steady at 20, #2 fluctuates and 15in. The lower pressure and fluctuation indicates a timing issue IMO.

Lynn; I tried two spots on the wire movement...worse than both these.

Zeke; I am leaning towards that but have to pull the front to check....I know I will need to it......

John; I am not sure if turning the dist gear under this circumstance will do anything....my brain is not visualizing that.....yet.

Whatca think?

 

My VA points at the fan too, but it doesn't hit anything so it's not a problem. Turning the gears turns the rotor I think so that when the number one cylinder fires, it's at TDC. Hell, I really shouldn't be in this discussion. I may try to send a link to this board to my brother, who's a really good mechanic. Super smart guy in all aspects. Maybe he can join the forum long enough to shed some light on the situation. He doesn't have a jeep, but I'm working on him, and he's helped me on Nixon, to no end, so he's very educated.

 

It still sounds like it has skipped one or more teeth. My number 1 is at 10 o'clock and I run 5 BTDC. Lots of adjustment if I want it.

 

My brother tried to log on but I think his computer is a little old. Here's what he says and I quote:

Bring the engine to top dead center on the number 1 plug (compression stroke). Make certain that TDC on the harmonic balancer is aligned with the marked timing tab on the timing cover.

Remove distributor cap.

The rotor should be pointing towards the number one tower on the distributor cap. If not, remove the distributor hold down clamp, lift the distributor out of the engine until the distributor drive disengages the camshaft drive gear. Rotate the distributor counterclockwise slightly past the location of the number one tower on the distributor cap. Drop the distributor back in the engine until cam gear and distributor gear mesh.

Note: The crankshaft may have to be rotated slightly to engage the oil pump drive tang. When distributor is fully seated, return crankshaft to TDC, and check rotor to tower number one alignment. That should put you very close.

Start the engine, remove the vacuum advance line from the distributor and plug, and adjust timing to 5 DBTDC.

DO NOT CHECK TIMING WITH VACUUM ADVANCE CONNECTED. IT CAUSES FLUCTUATION IN THE RPMS, WHICH JOCKIES THE TIMING ARROUND.

 

If everything checks out in the distributor, wiring, etc,. I'd be wondering about the chain.

How many miles on this rig?

 

With the timing jumping around, it is most likely a stretched chain or broken tensioner. With the distributor cap off, crank the engine forward and backward by hand. If you can move the crank more than a few degrees without the distributor turning its time to pull the front cover an look a the chain, gears and tensioners.

If it is the chain, I's suggest you replace it with a roller version, Edlebrock still has them for the 225.

 

Interesting post.

 

I wonder if there is something wrong with the advance? Wrong or defective vac module, or with the centrifugal advance? Weights too light, or springs too heavy or light?
Napa sells rebuilt distributors for the oddfire. So does Rock auto.com.
What I am confused about is the fact that (if I understand correctly) that you have a prestolite dist. body, but a Delco plate & cap? that could be the problem IMHO.

 

If I wasn't going totaly stock with it, I'd throw a HEI in it and be done with it

 

This is a good post with lots of good info. Unfortunately I can't help with the diagnosis, but if you get time, can you send me your notes on wire colors? I'm in the process of updating a wiring diagram with the factory color scheme.

Thanks,

Jim

 

What distributor are you running? I ran into a similar problem with my Prestolite; high idle only, no power and backfiring. Turns out the spring for the point arm wasn't heavy enough. Snipped off the old spring, swapped in the heavier one and it ran great after that. Just a thought...

 

Maybe youve already checked this, but I didnt catch it in reading all the posts. Have you pulled your valve cover and spark plug to ensure that your on TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust?? Had this problem once before, after three weeks, lots of cussing, throwing tools, and almost bald from pulling hairs, I went back to basics and started from ground zero. The motor will run, just wont be able to time it. Doing the dist 180 out wont help. Turn the motor over by hand with spark plugs out to check placement.

 

If you are not getting fire on the even bank of cylinders, the 225 may have the incorrect distributor in it. I ran into the same problem. I nearly beat myself up trying to figure out what was going on. I have a 71' with a 225 (or atleast i thought). Its actually a 71 chassy with a pre 65' 225 dauntless. Visually I could not tell the difference, but when i put in the correct distributor and cap in, a puff of smoke from the right exhaust, the engine hummed, i could time at low RPM, and the world was right again. I was advised of this situation a few months ago from a good samaritan on this website as well. Take a look and see what happens.

 

Correction, Pre 67'

 

sounds like the same trouble I'm having. I have a mallory dualpoint, going to replace it with a new delco dist. cap is a borg warner c175 the frist one I got didn't fit not sure about # I've done about the same thing you have the dist. is the only thig I have not changed. mine will run well for a while then sputter then wont fire