Play In The Steering Sector Shaft

Hi All,

While I was installing TightSteer today I noticed that I have play in my steering sector shaft which translates into steering wheel play. I realize this is a 60+ year old vehicle but just wanted to know if this amount of play is normal/typical.

https://gifyu.com/image/SgKOp

 

No expert but if that was my jeep I'd be concerned. That looks scary to me.

IMHO, Tightsteer is not a magic fix.

 

You are right that the TightSteer did not actually help with this issue when I installed it. Perhaps a steering box rebuild is in order?

 

That would be "The Right Thing to Do." Steering is relatively important.

The trick will be finding good NOS worm gear and sector, so I hear. Some repros have been dangerously poor quality.

 

Just so that I better understand what's happening currently. The sector shaft moves in and out when I jiggle the steering wheel left and right in the straight on position. Does this mean the worm gear is substantially worn around the center steering position and that is causing the sector shaft to move in and out?

 

Myself, I've never had one act like that, but something is definitely wrong!

Do you have an FSM?

One procedure is to test/set the adjustment at "full lock" left and right. It must not bind at the extreme "unworn" areas. Then see how much play you have at center, measured at the steering wheel.

The worm may be worn, but also the the conical pins on the sector. I'd also want to check on the bearings/bushings.

Again, I'm not an expert, but others here can be more definitive.

 

I do not have a FSM, but the person that sold me the Jeep gave me the "Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual". The TightSteer instructions had me set the tension of the TightSteer in the full lock position and so this is what I did and the result is I still have this play in the sector shaft when the steering wheel is set straight on.

 

Yikes, that box needs help! Bearings and sector shaft at the least.
Was there any lube in it?
As Pete mentioned, a factory manual is a good place to start
I'm not a fan of ''tightsteer''. A well sorted Ross box, drag link, etc. Will steer quite well. Problem these days is the quality of the replacement parts. A big reason some folks have transitioned to Saginaw.
Lots of info on Ross boxes here, OldWillysForum, and the 2apage.
Good luck!

 

I have not removed and disassembled it yet, but am thinking that now maybe I should since this seems concerning!

 

The "TightSteer" applies spring loaded pressure to the sector shaft which makes sector followers press into the worm. I suspect the in/out movement is because the followers have worn "flat spots" which allow it to move outward, and then when turned so less worn spots of the tapered followers engage the worm it moves it back inward. This might not show up so clearly without the TightSteer.

Yes, it is time to rebuild the steering box, and finding a good sector may be a challenge. I think RFJP has some good 7/8" sector shafts, but yours may be a 15/16" and those are probably very difficult to find.

 

My Ross box is stamped TL125999 if that helps identify the size of the sector shaft (of course I can also measure after I disassemble).

 

Do you happen to know what manual Saginaw boxes people typically go with?

 

The 72-75 intermediates came with manual saginaw. Look up the part numbers on rockauto. A saginaw conversion is an excellent upgrade, a lot of us (myself included) just moved past trying to save the ross box and switched to saginaw. There are a lot of threads about it on this site for both power steering and manual saginaw.

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/17911/

 

On it!

 

I have always rebuilt the Ross steering box on my Jeeps, and addressed the rest of the steering system. Nothing wrong with the system when it is kept in good order, but because it is getting difficult to source quality parts for the Ross, for the first time I am doing a Saginaw conversion on one of my projects. I have a manual Saginaw taken off of a 73 CJ5. This is going into a 48 CJ2A frame which is at a friend's fabrication shop right now to have the mount fabricated and welded in, as well as modifying the cross member for routing the shaft. He is also boxing the frame horns to strengthen that area.

 

I have a couple of CJ5 Ross steering boxes from standard (4 cylinder) Jeeps. I haven't taken them apart, so don't know if the sectors are serviceable, likely worn out but if you aren't in a hurry I can pull them apart to inspect. Need to know if yours is a 7/8" or 15/16" shaft.

Right now I am tearing down an old Dauntless for parts I have promised to deliver to the Willys Fall reunion, and don't know if I'll have time to get to these before then.

The one in the old Dauntless is probably the 15/16" shaft if the steering box is original to the Jeep.

I have seen where some folks have the followers pressed out and rotated to present the unworn side to the worm, but have never done that so don't know how well it works.

I wish someone would produce properly hardened replacement followers for these things so we could rebuild old sectors.

 

Others have used these John Deere pins: https://www.steinertractor.com/JDS1184-Steering-Pin

The John Deere M and it's follow-on tractors in the 50s used a Ross box.

The biggest difficulty is installing them. They are swedged in place from the factory. You options are to heat them back of them red hot and smash in a new swedge hoping you don't wreck the heat treat on the pin end, or TIG weld the back side in which probably creates a smaller heat-affected area.

I have one here I had a machine shop rotate the pins 90 degrees and TIG them back in place.

 

Only now appreciating the history behind the aftermarket sector shafts that were made with two pieces welded together that would split. I plan on looking inside the steering box this weekend.

 

Update: I pulled the front fender and opened up the Ross box. This is what I'm seeing...

1. It looks like I may have the two-piece sector shaft installed that people have had bad experiences with?
2. I'm not sure I understand what's going on with the play in the sector shaft. Is it supposed to be seated in there pretty snugly?

Video of the play with the Ross box opened up: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bioJcr_063s