1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Another Windshield Wiper Question

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Bill Niven, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. Aug 27, 2016
    Bill Niven

    Bill Niven New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    OK a little history, 72 CJ5 I am working on full of challenges. When I purchased it, the pigtail from the wiper motor was cracked and disconnected from the wiper switch so I took off the pigtail and still am using the terminals. I connected the wires to the switch using the diagram in the pic below but no wipers. I ordered a new switch and still the same outcome. I then got a toggle switch and plugged in the hot wire feeding the switch to the toggle and the plugged in the other red wire to out going power off the toggle. I grounded the green wire and the wipers worked. I then unplugged the red wire and switched it with the green wire and grounded the red and they worked again. The wipers won't park and I understand why but don't understand why they won't work off the switch. Can someone offer me any ideas?[[/ATTACH] 20160827_164339_resized.jpg ] 20160827_164513_resized (1).jpg 20160827_164513_resized (1).jpg Screenshot_20160821-152441_resized.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2016
  2. Sep 2, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Don't see how that three terminal switch can make it happen. You meed at least a 4 terminal switch for Hi-Low-Park-Power. YMMV
     
  3. Sep 2, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    As I recall, the wiper motor works in a boost-buck mode, where you connect both field windings for low (buck) and one for high (boost, although really no buck).

    Do you have the TSM for your year? You need to read the manual. There is a '74 manual here JeepĀ® 1974 TSM online - look at page 17-6. '74 is close enough for this topic, but you should have a copy of the '72 manual. Not Haynes, not Chiltons, Jeep.

    Walt, park is in the motor. There is a slider on a rotating contact that grounds through the motor body until the motor is at park. Power goes to the motor, and the high and low are both grounded at the dash switch.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Tim according to the diagram this model motor/switch does not ground through the dash switch. Least wise the three different diagrams I have doesn't.
     
  5. Sep 2, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    Have you looked at the '72 diagram? From memory, that's what it does. My '72 book is at home.

    This is from the '74 book

    upload_2016-9-2_11-37-17.png

    Seems unequivocal. IIRC that's the same thing the '72 manual says. Power comes from the switch all the time the key is on and low and high go to ground when selected. Ground for park is at the motor, which is clearly shown on the diagram.

    Also, pretty sure this scheme changes for 1976, but the motor is the same.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  6. Sep 2, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Won't dispute the manual but the ground at the dash switch is not present on the diagrams that I have showing 72 through 74. diagrams are from www.offroaders.com
     
  7. Sep 2, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    I agree there is no explicit ground shown on the diagram. Here's a scrap from the '74 TSM:

    upload_2016-9-2_16-42-12.png

    You can see that the motor is explicitly grounded, and there are only 3 wires going to the motor. A-33 comes from the accessory terminal of the ignition switch, and is hot when the key is at run or accessory. (A-30 goes to the washer motor). How I interpret this is that the black "park" is hot when the key is on, and both red "high" and green "low" are connected to ground at the low speed selection (buck). Turn the switch to high and the green "low" is now open and red "high" is grounded (boost). When you turn the switch off, power continues to be supplied through the black wire, and is grounded through the motor until the internal switch in the motor reaches park and goes open. The parking switch is in parallel with the wiper switch, and only opens in the park position.

    It is possible to configure the switch in the wiper motor so that all three lines must be hot in low, and two lines are hot for high (park and high). But that contradicts the text of the manual. Park must be hot all the time, regardless. I think the text is right and the diagram is wrong (ie missing a ground symbol), but I can test my '75 tomorrow and see which is right. If you have the factory wiper switch, you can test it with your multimeter to determine how it works.

    BTW just for the record, I think those diagrams that Walt points to are from a Haynes or Chiltons manual. The Jeep '72 diagram is pictorial (ie not a schematic) and nothing like that. I expect the '72-73 diagram is actually the Jeep '73 diagram, and it's the same as a '72 (or close enough). I recall the Haynes manual says that the '74 and '75 diagrams are the same, which is wrong. '74 does not have a fuse panel, and '75 does. Buy one of these parts store manuals and caveat emptor (buyer beware).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  8. Sep 2, 2016
    Bill Niven

    Bill Niven New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    Thanks everyone, as it turns out the motor was not properly grounded to the windshield frame. I ran a ground wire off one of the mounting bolts to the frame and hooked back up the original switch. Now the wipers work as they should. I also got the horn working again today, now for the back up lights.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Now that you are back together with the original switch would you be kind enough to tell me if you had to hook up a ground wire from the original switch..
     
  10. Sep 4, 2016
    Bill Niven

    Bill Niven New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    All i did was run a ground off wiper motor mount bolt to ground, the switch hooked up with original wires. Hope tbat helps.
     
  11. Sep 4, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Just trying to verify wiring diagram error. Trying to determine if there is a wire coming from the wiper switch and going to ground somewhere. I don't have access to this year model to confirm for myself. Appreciate the help.
     
  12. Sep 4, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    Walt, I tested my '75. The switch is not grounded. With the key off, no power goes to the switch. With the key on, the PARK terminal is hot. Turn to low or high and the PARK terminal goes open and the LOW or HIGH terminal is hot, resp. This kinda makes sense, because 1975 is the first year for the wiring upgrade to a fuse panel. So a '75 is more like a '76 in this respect. Indeed, I am running a 1976-up wiper motor with no modification other than moving the '75 bracket to the '76-type motor.

    Unfortunately my 1975 manual is missing chapter 17, so I can't tell you if the description continues into the 1975 book. I have a 1972 manual, and it's pictorial diagram (no schematic) does not show a ground at the switch, but it does have the same description as the 1974 manual excerpted above. The 1976 manual describes the performance that I see for my 1975.

    So the conflict in the 1974 manual is still a mystery. I suspect the way it works changes somewhere in the 1970 to 1974 range...
     
  13. Sep 4, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,532
    Weren't there 2 style wiper switch.. One had a 2 post rectangle off the circle... I always thought that was a park switch
     
  14. Sep 4, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    Could be there were two switch types. My '74-80 parts book shows two different part numbers for 1974, and three for 1975.

    The motor will require key-on power for the park function regardless of whether the switch connects ground or hot to run the motor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  15. Sep 5, 2016
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,467
    Got it Tim and tnx.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2016
    rejeep

    rejeep Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Rochester, NY
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,532
    picture of the "other" switch

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Sep 6, 2016
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Just read the whole thread, learning that we suppose to have a park position.

    On my 75 switch is brand new but the park position doesn't work at all, i have a 76+ wiper motor on a intermediate windsheild. Low, high washer is working properly but no park.

    So the black wire on the wiper pig tail is suppose to be hot when the key switch is on? Does the wiper switch give 12v + to the black wire when it's off or i need to put direct power from the key switch on it?
     
  18. Sep 6, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    When the key is on and the switch is off, the PARK terminal (connected to the black wire) is hot. If you look at post 7 above, A-33 is connected to the fuse panel (on a '75) and is hot when the key is on.
     
  19. Sep 6, 2016
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    So the park wire (black) is getting power (12v+) from the wiper switch when the switch is at off position.

    So best way to diagnostic the problem i could just take off the connector from the wiper switch and run a 12v +wire right into the black wire end, and if will get to park position, if yes switch is bad, if no problem inside the motor.

    If it's the motor the problem, can i repair it myself or i will need to buy a brand new motor?
     
  20. Sep 6, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,591
    Yes - send power to the black wire and see if the motor parks. Or do like I did, and unscrew the switch from the dash, leave it connected and dangling below the dash, then check which terminals are hot with the switch in each position.

    If the motor is broken, you might be able to fix it. There is a rotating contact riding on a circuit board inside the motor that goes open when the wipers reach park. The plastic parts inside my original motor were partly melted, so I replaced it with a new '76-up motor. As far as I can tell, the '75 and '76 motors are the same except for the bracket on one end of the motor. You can take the screws out and switch brackets - you don't even need to take the motor apart.
     

Share This Page

New Posts