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Why I've been apologizzing to my jeep all afternoon

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by mwinks-jeep, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Feb 19, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

    Beautiful Bucks...
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    NOTE - I DID CHANGE THE OIL ON THIS JEEP BEFORE I GOT IT RUNNING AGAIN BACK IN 2010. LOL - now read on......

    If you've been following along you know that it all started when I put my thermostat in upside down.

    So then it became a head gasket replacement. Then I thought 'Hmm, he was pretty smoky even before I blew the gasket, should probably do rings.'

    So today I went out and dropped the oil pan. Neat extra note here is there is a skid pad mounted to the pan as we all know but there was also a separate sort of a front chin/skid guard that mounts to the front 4 or so bolts of the pan. Looks stock, the lip covers the bottom of the crank wheel.

    So it started with draining oil. I open the drain plug and the first second or so of drainage is green flourescent mess. The guilt......

    Then lots of non-detergent oil til it got to the drip drip drip........drip.............drip stage.

    Then I loosened the pan nuts and tilted it slightly to the plug side - sludge starts dripping and slithering and glugging out.
    A nasty "texture-of-brownie-batter" sludge. The guilt increases....

    So then I replug the drain and drop the pan. Then I felt REALLY guilty. I should have done this the day I got it.

    The sludge in the bottom of the pan was no less than a quarter of an inch deep, maybe deeper, and was literally thick enough to stir with a screwdriver. It was higher than the cut out in the bottom flow-thru of the baffle at the back third of the pan.

    As I am scraping and wiping and scaping and wiping and dumping out mess etc I kept saying "I am so sorry Barn (Barney's his name, I didn't name him)...so sorry. I had no idea." :rofl:

    Poor old guy! So now the pan is the next thing to be fully cleaned inside and out and repainted. Some shots of the mess as well as the underside of the block (kinda lame shots, my camera was dying, better ones to come) can be found here:

    http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/mwinks-jeep/

    Enjoy:driving: jeep toss will happen soon enough!
     
  2. Feb 19, 2012
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    I assume you're replacing bearings as well..
     
  3. Feb 19, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

    Beautiful Bucks...
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    That is the plan, my friend the engine builder was explaining that he uses some plastic stuff that you press into the bearings to gauge their wear. This is new territory for me so I will be learning and replacing as necessary as we go.
     
  4. Feb 19, 2012
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    plastigauge-----google it, they have a great tutorial
     
  5. Feb 19, 2012
    oddfirejeeper

    oddfirejeeper Active Member

    Hamilton, MI
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    those pictures remind me of my jeep when i bought it. i don't think the p.o. EVER changed the oil only kept adding if it was low. the whole inside of the engine looked like your oil pan sludge. i rebuilt it and a year later i was stuck in a humongous mud pit for quite some time and mud and water found it's way into the bloack from the improperly installed rope main seal. i had 0 psi of oil as after i got it running on the trail and noway to get pulled out through the rest of the trail i drove it out. wipped all the bearings,crank,cam,lifters out and rebuilt it again. oh good times!
     
  6. Feb 19, 2012
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member

    Renton, WA
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    I'm really hoping my dauntless doesn't look like that when I drop the pan next weekend. Bought the engine as a good runner, and like an idiot, I didn't bother changing the oil pan gasket or front and read seals while it was on the stand.....

    DOH!
     
  7. Feb 19, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

    Beautiful Bucks...
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    I am really hoping it goes no further....I am not in the position or mood to do more than rings and bearings....
     
  8. Feb 19, 2012
    Diggerjeep

    Diggerjeep Member

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    I'd be inclined to re-install the pan and put the head back on and get some clean oil through the engine. Then change the oil again after about an hour. Take it for a ride, get some rest and take a deep breath. While you have it apart, you should look at the valves and regrind or replace as needed. New oil pump is a good idea as well. It'll be alot easier if you pull the engine. but I would want to start with an engine with the sludge flushed out first. You can use an engine flush oil additive, but the engine has to be able to run.

    I'm not far away in Langhorne, if you want to meet sometime and get a cup of coffee and talk jeeps.

    Chuck
     
  9. Feb 19, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

    Beautiful Bucks...
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    Would you re-pull the pan and re-clean it after the or just drain at the plug? Oil pump is going to come out get inspected, cleaned etc...might get replaced.

    I literally cannot pull the engine in Jeep's current location and now that it is apart I cannot move it as it would trash the backyard and that would be far worse than sludge ;)

    Grinding valves would require removing exhaust valves which are mounted in the block, yes? Hmmm not sure that is happening either.
    I do keep in mind that you're local, and I am a customer of Langhorne VW so we should indeed catch up some day. I come across 413 from Doylestown all the way to Business Rte 1...
     
  10. Feb 20, 2012
    Gwillys

    Gwillys 1953 CJ3B

    Southington, Ct
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    Take the oil pickup apart while your down there. Mine had lint, hair and paint chips in it. Easy to do and peace of mind.
     
  11. Feb 20, 2012
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    On the other hand, it might have run another 100K without a wimper...
     
  12. Feb 20, 2012
    Diggerjeep

    Diggerjeep Member

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    If the engine has never been apart before, that sludge took 50+ years to accumulate. Even if it is only 20, I wouldn't worry too much about pulling the pan again after doing an oil engine flush. I would highly recommend that you change the oil again after 1 hour of running and again after 100 miles or so. I know, oil isn't cheap, put it is a lot easier to change the oil a couple of time than it is to pull the engine and rebuild it.
    I also change the oil in my cars at least once a year, whether they get driven or not, just to keep fresh oil in the pan.

    Does your engine have an oil filter? My old 59 had a cartridge type oil filter, and I converted it to screw on type. The spare engine I have in my garage, which came from a 62 CJ5 does not have any oil filter, aparently the oil filter was an option. My 68 CJ-5 has a screw-on type filter.

    I also got in the habbit of writing the date on the oil filter with a majic marker as a reminder of when I did the last oil change.

    How was the oil pressure and compression on the engine before you took the head off?

    By the way, if you pull the oil pump, the oil pump drives off the bottom of the distributor. I'm not sure if you can pull the oil pump without pulling the distributor.
     
  13. Feb 20, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

    Beautiful Bucks...
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    The engine was apart in the late 70's/early 80's, not sure how "APART" it actually was but that is long enough for some attention to be needed. With the pan out I think I am going to get up under there and look around with some bright lights to see what I can see as far as internally in the motor, clear out the oil pick up as suggested (I was going to do that anyway) and flush the motor with some fresh oil and oil flush as you suggest.
    I also need to flush the coolant system and then try some bars leaks on the rad...keep in mind this thing goes less than 300 miles a year and never off road in the sand and.or muck. Only in snow WOOOHOOO...if I get into the trail stuff or much more mileage I will amend my maintenance habits accordingly, for now i just want him to be clean.
    I do not know what my oil pressure was like prior to dismantling, I do not even have a working TEMP gauge...heck I don't even have a working GAS gauge...prior to this mess those were my goals for this summer!
    And I do have a large spin on oil filter, the car appears to have had that since the 70s/80s rebuild as opposed to the old style cartridge filter (had one of those in a 61 Fiat)...
     
  14. Feb 20, 2012
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
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    Be careful using bars leak, had that stuff gum up a water pump and t stat on a 300 ford. Took forever to get that stuff out of the motor. :rofl: Just my opinion .
     
  15. Feb 20, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

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    Good to know, thanks
     
  16. Feb 20, 2012
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    In your first post you state that the oil was non detergent.

    I would suggest that considering you have an oil filter, you should be using detergent oil.
     
  17. Feb 20, 2012
    mwinks-jeep

    mwinks-jeep I still love snow, Godspeed, Barney!

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    yes that is correct, part of the redo is I am switching to regular 10/40 oil.
     

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