This pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Opinions please!!!!! 96 ford ranger 2.3 into 55 cj5...

Bought an alleged pinto bellhousing, on right....88 t-bird on left....

Also pinto to t90 adapter from eBay...

Indexing ring to big for pinto, too small for tbird...

Bolt holes no where near on either bellhousing.









Thoughts..... Total depth of either bellhousing and adapter is just about 8.25"....which puts the input shaft right inside the pilot bushing.....perfect....

No more time or $$ really to buy new parts, so I am thinking have a ring machined to go over the smaller indexing ring and into the bigger bellhousing.....fill the indents with jb weld cause I'd feel better about, then redrill for adapter...also could utilize the lower two holes on the adapter...







I'll hafta cut off the hydro slave bracket I believe, but no biggie, and could tilt the motor a bit for D-shaft clearance....but it does fit in there...

I could keep the clutch set up to pull the release arm, instead off push like the pinto.

Also, stock ranger disc measured 8 7/8"....close enough to use the jeep disc with a ranger pressure plate?


Again thanks for any opinions and thoughts and maybe better ideas... I need to cut a hole in the house and install French doors, plus bedline my tub, hopefully all the body, while summer is still here....doesn't last long in northern Maine lol

Thanks!!!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

IIRC it's not just any Pinto bell that will work with this swap. There is a specific bell that is supposedly kind of hard to come by.

"Our Novak Kit #PC2 is for the 4-3/8" (112mm) bellhousing bore engines only. The bellhousing must measure 7" deep, front face to back face. No other bellhousing will work with this kit."

Does your Pinto bell match this description? Sounds like it does not.

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

After dealing with a lot of interchange questions on my ford install, I learned that the 302 and 2.3 share the same bellhousing bolt pattern. Looking at your adapter, it appears that it uses the same bolt pattern as the bellhousing that I used.

This page helped me a lot:
http://www.mustangtek.com/Bellhousings/Bellhousings.html


I ended up using a 164 tooth aluminum bell from a 70's ford pickup, because I am using an 11" clutch with a 164 tooth flywheel.

Do you know your tooth count on your flywheel?

Should be 157 or 164 if any of these bellhousings will work. The bell's won't interchange due to starter placement

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Timgr,
Waynaferds adapter looks a lot different than the one on Novaks site. If I were a betting man, I would guess it's designed to be used with a SB Ford Bell

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

I originally sent some pics of the bellhousing to Eric at Novak before I bid on it, and the seller measured it for me as well...definetely looked like a go...

I'm not sure what happened lol but was some excited to find that other adapter and save $250... until it arrived today anyways and didn't fit

Both bells match right up to the 2.3 fine, but I never did think to stick the starter in theree...tomorrow!!

And thanks for the mustangtek link, I'm off to browse there a bit for now!!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

You can see the differences in the adapters:


Novaks has the bearing retainer built in from what it looks like

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

That'll be another issue... A sleeve of some sort or tinker up a jeep T/O bearing I spose

This eBay adapter has zero markings except "#2", so I dunno if it's an old novak or advanced or who... The seller does salvage parts do I doubt would have any more info, was just described as a pinto to t90 adapter, and for $37.50 I thought was a helluva deal lol. But it does put the input shaft into the pilot bushing like it should, so who knows what I've ended up with!! Although I was and still am baffled by the lower two mounting holes....

And the part numbers are indeed to a pinto bellhousing, but I can't remember the years and for what tranny now, but I did check as soon as it arrived.

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/comparison-between-d5-d9-direct-pull-bellhousings/


D5 or D9 bellhousings..... And I got the wrong dang one!! Phooey!! Mystery solved, anyways!!!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Glad you got if figured out!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

On second look, I still don't see your adapter bolt pattern matching up, unless I'm missing something. Also note, a SB Ford bell has the same depth at 8.25"

The bolt pattern of your adapter looks to be the same as an NP435 or T18

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Still doesn't fix nothing tho lol I think Ill try redrilling the tbird housing as it was cheap and easy to find, then go from there and see what happens lol

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Read my post just before yours, Ford SB Bell is still 8.25 deep and has the right pattern for your adapter and right bellhousing bolt pattern. With the clutch disc size you mentioned, I'm going to guess you have a 157 tooth flywheel.

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Posted at the same time then I went to bed lol

The adapter fits onto the T90 just fine, idk if you can see the lower holes on each corner each have a little black mark on them.

But the others are off from the novak pattern looking side by side

A 347 stroker swap it is lol!!!

I do have a 95 5.0 and a Buick v6 bell in my garage, but decided on the 2.3 route which is working awesomely in my favor lol

thanks for all the help so far!!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

No problem! I went with a 302, but had considered many engines beforehand, including the pinto. The only other thing I think may have happened is you actually have an adapter for a SB Chevy to T90. Can you tell us the spacing on the bolt holes? SB Chevy bell depth is also 8.25", and the ford and Chevy patterns are close on the top two bolts.

 

I'm puzzled. :?

My understanding was that the Factory T90 stickout is too short for most popular bellhousings. This is why Jeep used what is essentially the long T90J input shaft in the T86 - to make room for an adapter between the bell and the transmission.

I had thought the secret ingredient to the Pinto swap was the shallow Pinto bell, also used with the 144 and 170 inline six. This provides room for a very simple plate adapter between the T90 and the Pinto bell.

The CURRENT Novak kit is DIFFERENT from the EARLY kit. This used adapter is the EARLY kit, if it's Novak (and if it's Pinto). The first version of the adapter from Novak used a sleeve over the T90 bearing retainer, to allow the use of a Chevy (?) throwout bearing on the Pinto throwout arm.

The original version of the Novak adapter was cheap, about half of what the GM adapter kit would cost - because of the simple design when you use the T90A or T90C input shaft and the shallow Pinto bell.

The CURRENT Novak kit gets rid of the sleeve, and incorporates the sleeve into a built-in bearing retainer. The DIMENSIONS - stick out and bell depth - should be the same.

If you get the right bell, it should work - if the adapter is really for a Pinto engine. The bell should measure 7" deep.

Let's try the Wayback machine to see if the early instructions exist somewhere. Otherwise, ask Eric for the early instructions.

 

Here you go - https://web.archive.org/web/20060316080124/http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/pinto.htm

 

Thanks for the info Tim!!

This bell measured just under 7 1/4" if I remember correct, and this adapter equalled it out to 8 1/4" total depth.

The crank sticks out nearly 1 3/4" , and the pilot bearing is about 1/2" deep, so it works out well in that regard, with the T90 shaft being 7 1/4". I'll just need a pilot bushing to fit both crank and input, which I believe novak carries. Again measurements are from memory but it did look like it would work.

So the hardest part works itself out, thankfully lol. If this was a V8 or even a bigger V6 I would definately keep looking, but I think re-drilling the tbird bell will work fine with little 4 popper. If I can get out of work early enough I gotta grab a few 4cyl tbird/mustang release arms and maybe T/O bearings, if the local junkyard has them, then bring home a bunch and see what'll work. I think the jeep disc will work with the ranger 2.3 pressure plate, so no flywheel swaps or re drilling either.

It'll be awhile, but if this'll work out I'll do a little how-to, since the dang correct pinto bells are so elusive lol

I believe the novak kit is around $275 shipped, which is more than I got to spare unfortunately, especially since I need a new suspension for this thing lol gotta do it cheap to keep the wife happy (er) lol

Thanks again!!

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

The bell housing that Novak wants you to use is completely different than the 302 one. I have one of the bell housings sitting in my garage.

You can use the Jeep clutch on the Ford engine/flywheel but I think using the larger Ford one is a better idea. Also, the reason the shaft is not right is you also need the correct version of the T90 - there are two common ones that came in the CJs and one will not work. I think maybe your idea could fix that.

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

You are mistaken about that. This only applies to the conventional Ford and GM adapters, which need to use the longer T90J input shaft to make room for th adapter. The T90J input is only compatible with the T90A transmission, which has the same ratios as the T90J. The T90C transmission - the other short-stickout version of the T90 - has deeper ratios than the T90A, but the same stickout. So either the T90A or T90C should work ok. These are the two versions that were used in the CJ-5.

Novak has a page explaining this - http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t90.htm

And, there is nothing in the Pinto adapter instructions that requires the T90A.

 

Re: This gotdamn pinto swap!!! Hellllppppp!!!!!

Indeed, I was getting my two adapters confused. The Novak adapter for the Ford engine does work with both CJ versions of the T90 - it is the GM adapter that is the problem one for me.