Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Exactly what I was thinking....that extra hang down length on the front could create a lot of leverage when there is some lateral forces applied - guessing that is what the cross brace is supposed to help strengthen against. It is bolt on, but instructions suggest welding perimeter for additional strength - that way you can crack the frame instead of the hangers. So far, for prefabbed front hangers, the Woody's ones look best, but I haven't gotten dimensions yet.

 

I don't - certainly not on this frame....maybe if I was starting fresh with a TDK frame, we could set up the SR for YJ. But I am only thinking of SR right now because once I weld the hangers on (be it front or reverse shackle), I don't have any plans to cut-it out and redo it. I would guess all this welding and re-welding is not helping frame strength in the all important spring mount areas - especially my marginal welding. If the frame keeps cracking, its time for a new frame - a boxed frame.
Thanks for checking out the Warrior SR - the pics really help visualize whats going on with it....although it looks to me like the 'kit' comes with some second set of brackets that I assume are for the shackle hangers at the rear - a bit different than the set-up you photographed.

 

Well - hope I taught you some things that are helping with this from when we did your last one... Though you should be able to do a crack a day - even with beer

Anyhow - looks like your making progress and the two plates should work fine for the way your doing it. That's much the same as the front shock area on the current build.

Good Luck James.

 

I am pretty much following your methodology....but its one thing to know what to do, its another to be able to actually do it......

 

Think I made some progress today.....focused on the rear shock mount section.....if you remember, I started with this cut-out section that included the shock mount:


Then using a piece of frame from jeeppeep, I patched it in like this:


In theory, it would have been easier to weld the shock mount to the piece first, but there were some complications and access with the welding gun that concerned me....I wanted to make sure I got the frame section welded in well, and then I was able to access the shock mount reasonably well to get it welded. Then put some fishplate over the primary patch weld....think it came out ok:


Next up, I have to decide if/how to reinforce the top flange that the shock mount is mounted on. I didn't put fishplate under it - which maybe I should have done.....but anyway, now my options are either to box in the backside of the frame where the shock mount is, add some fishplate on the underside of the top flange (inside the the C-channel), or possibly just leave as is? I am sure the shock mount takes some stress, but guessing its not nearly as much as the sections where the spring hangers are....

 

just for you....not all that pretty - had a lot of challenge trying to weld up in the tight spots while laying under the jeep on short jackstands....but its something, better than nothing.

 

Just to finish up the discussion of SR kits....I talked on the phone with Woody's4x4 (in Vancouver, WA):
https://www.woodys4x4.com/suspension.htm#Shackle_Top

First and foremost, Gary was super helpful on the phone, and was very knowledgeable about early jeeps and wagon, and took a lot of time chatting with be about the details as well as sending me some pics of stuff (since the website is a bit thin of details and pics). This set-up is for 1.75" springs, and the front hanger brackets mount through the OEM hangers, and then you weld for more strength. The pics are of the original, one-off set he made for his own CJ, as he didn't have any of their more formalized, cleaner production pieces currently installed on anything at the shop. The final position of the spring eye is 4.25" below the frame (for reference, the distance from the bottom of the frame to the OEM hanger bolt is 2". There is no included cross-brace to mount between the hangers for lateral reinforcement a-la the warrior kit Ryan posted above....although its not as short as the m38a1 style, he did mention they wanted to keep it as short as possible and that its shorter than most of the other competitors....but its not feasible to go shorter while keeping the OEM hanger, and that is important from a 'sell-able', mostly bolt on kit perspective .


The shackle at the rear of the spring is a short set-up that mounts using the OEM spring hanger - looks like a similar set-up to the the Jeep Ryan posted above....I didn't get a measurement on the length of that shackle, but guessing its around 2.5" (for reference, on the OEM hanger, the distance from the bottom of the frame to the bolt center is 1.75"). Another way one could go this route (and NOT the through the frame shackle mount), one could consider welding on OEM style shackle hangers (especially since my OEM pivots are already cut-off) and then using a 2.5" shorty shackle from rough stuff....that keeps everything in about the same position as this kit, but without the odd shackle/pivot combo - but guessing that really isn't an issue.


Don't know if there is much more to say about SR options....best option in my mind is to make your own front pivot bracket using dimensions more similar to the m38a1, which keeps the 'hang down' distance below the frame to around 3.5", minimizing the lateral leverage, and helps with ground clearance/approach angle....plus I think it might be worth considering trying to brace the pivots laterally with either a small gussets to a cross-member (if you have one), or even just running a side plate from the hanger up the side of the frame rail (this is pretty much what the wagon hangers do from the factory). Using such a 'short' pivot hanger probably does require mounting the rear shackle through the frame to keep the overall spring position relatively horizontal.

I guess if you went with a longer front pivot hanger, and could brace/reinforce the front frame hanger/pivot appropriately, the using a standard shackle hanger and shackle at the rear works (and maybe that allows a bit more shackle range of motion?, and it certainly provides a bit of inherent lift...Not sure how much lift is really useful on these ecj5s - seems like once you can run 33s, any more lift and bigger tires triggers a lot of other concerns.....

Now if only I had a good way to bend 1/4" steel plate - the front hanger brackets seem trivially easy to make, although welding a cross-support between the sides might be a bit tricky. I am sorta wondering if one could find 1/4' rectangular tubing in something like 5x2.5" and just cut the hanger out to avoid having to make bends?

 

Its not so much that it provides lift - but rather the way it mounts to the frame that is not ideal to me. Although I think its a pretty darn good pre-assembled kit - probably the best option of all the retailers I've seen - I don't know how much of a concern the long front pivot bracket is. If one of the goals of an SR is to reduce stress on frame mounts - then shorter is better. As Gary pointed out, the OEM set-up would have had a 2" drop hanger plus the 2.75" length of the shackle (and most of us use a bit longer shackle than that), using a 4.25-4.5" long pivot bracket doesn't seem all that different. Obviously, the reversal provides a lot of the frame stress relief more through how the axle can move rearward when encountering a rock or obstacle etc, so maybe the details of exactly where the spring is mounted in relation to the frame (how far below the frame) is not all that important.

I do wonder what happens when you combine 2.5" lift springs with this set-up....Would it result in too much lift? Honestly, it wouldn't be ok if my front end was just a bit taller. Trying to think about how ride height would be affected by the shackle reversal, I will consider the front almost the same as the front eye of the spring would be placed about 4.5" below the frame rail whether using the OEM style shackle mount, or an SR fixed pivot. With the OEM fixed spring pivot in the rear, the rear spring eye would be placed 1.75" below the frame, whereas with the SR, the shackle is maybe 2.5" long in addition to the 1.75" bracket. If you figure the additional length of the shackle at one end produces half that length in lift, that would be about 1.25" of lift over stock configuration. Given that I currently run a 3.25" shackle in the front (1/2" longer than OEM), once that is not used, the front end of the spring eye will come up just a bit reducing the amount of lift just a bit....in other words, I might 'guesstimate' that removing my front shackles, going with the Woody's kit and using their shorty rear mounted shackle, I might only see 1" of additional lift....that might be ok, if not good.....hmmm....now you got me seriously considering doing this.....front driveshaft length could be a concern

 

True, but for my purposes, its not so much about comparison to the m38a1 (which might actually lower my overall 'lift', but rather a comparison to what I am currently running....