The B3 3b Attempt

Got the tub off yesterday with the help of a couple of neighbors. They looked at me kinda funny when I offered them beer as payment for their service at 10:30 in the morning. I dunno. Whatever. I had one.

I power washed it and rolled it back into the operating room. I’ll finish stripping it down and formulate a more precise plan as I do. I know that the axles will go back under the ‘71 when this thing is done. It’s where they came from and in the first place and the 3.73 will make it more what my kid would need when the jeep gets passed on.

 

purty

 

X2

 

So I'm looking at spring hangers for this heap. Seems most of the available after market Wrangler pieces come with 9/16 holes drilled in them for the spring bolts. Thats a big honking bolt that I really kind of don't want. Contacting the suppliers has yielded negative replies about making me a set with smaller holes. Did wranglers really come from the factory with 9/16 diameter spring bolts? Pretty sure the old 5 has 7/16 diameter. That seems like enough to me.

 

The YJ I have has 1/2" bolts.

 

My stock YJ springs/bushings are 9/16 spring hanger end and 1/2 on the shackles.

 

Yes, that is how mine is too. I checked it this morning.

 

Wow! Okay. Thanks for the intel. I can move forward although I prefer redundancy with parts....same bolts and bushings etc at both ends of the spring. I can likely make this happen to satisfy my OCD, if that's what you want to call it, assuming that the bushings are the same and it's just the sleeve inside the bushing that makes the difference.

Redundancy makes things easy and lessens chances for mistakes and eases parts replacement.

 

And 9/16 greasable bolts are $13 each. Tax and shipping over ‘$60 for 4 bolts!! Buy once cry for the past 3days.

 

After almost 90 minutes of searching all things YJ leaf spring related, I've come up with the following: very little consistency exists.

It does appear that the fixed end of the spring uses the 9/16" bolt but the shackle end of the spring AND the shackle to frame use the 1/2" bolt. It also appears that bolt sleeves and the bushings are different at each end of the spring.

Prothane lists kit #11005 as "Front Leaf Spring and Shackle Bushings" and contains everything needed to replace all the bushing for both left and right front springs and shackles. As follows:

(8) hat bushings #61011-----these are the shackle bushings in the spring and in the frame
- "hat bushings" are split bushings, 2 required per location, one piece slides in from each side, so 2 for the front end of the left spring, 2 for the left side of the frame, and 2 and 2 for the right side

(4) sleeves # 60531 - 3/4" x .120 wall x 3.00 length ..........for 61011 bushing

(4) rear spring bushing # 60310

(2) sleeve #60538 - 3/4" x .083 wall x 3.00 length .......for 60310 bushing


Kit #11005-rear is described as "Rear leaf Spring and Shackle Bushings" and contains the exact same parts.

So all of this tells me the inside diameter of all of the bushings are the same and difference between the bolt diameters is made up for in the steel sleeves BUT the OD of the bushings must be different........the rear of the spring using a different outside diameter bushing ( PN 60310) than the front of the spring and the frame shackle mount hole (PN 61011). I dunno. Unless there is something else different in the design between the two besides the OD.

And to further muddy this thing up, which should be so simple, the more I look at this stuff, I am finding 3 different possible spring eye diameters. 1.00, 1.25 and 1.50. Prothane does not indicate the OD of the bushings in the kits.

WTH wouldn't the just use the same bushings and bolts everywhere. F-ing engineers. WTH?

I guess I'll just have to measure everything and see what I have then order accordingly in respect to the bushings. But none of this really helps with my initial problem.......finding an aftermarket supplier who has a spring mount with a 1/2" diameter hole in it for the shackle bolt. I'll figure it out but it shouldn't be this involved.

 

I feel like Kyle ran into this. Might need to skip down to the special one bushings for the special one springs.
http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/121282/page-12

 

Greaseable bolts for the static end of the spring aren’t necessary. That is a pinch bolt that squeezes/locks the bushing in place. If the bushing is spinning around the bolt during operation, it’s not tight enough. Some antiseize during installation is all it needs to aid in removal down the road.

 

https://motobilt.com/products/jeep-...px9efJB1xmXj8_ett2bywgMvXCgK3XU4aAmV1EALw_wcB

https://motobilt.com/products/poly-...48148&pr_ref_pid=4567308435540&pr_seq=uniform

Can’t go wrong with Motobilt.
That should be what you’re looking for?

 

I should have asked you before I ordered. I can get 4 grade 8 bolts for the same price as one of the greasable bolts.

 

Thanks Ryan. Motobilt IS on my list of potential suppliers. I am going to dissect the stock Wrangler springs that I have, and plan to use (for now anyway.....all through mock-up and potentially permanently) and see what diameter the spring eyes are before I commit to ordering parts. If I go with different springs after mock up, I'll order what I need to make them work at that point in time. Good money after bad but that's how it goes sometimes.

In the meantime, I'm going hack up one these frames I have laying here and use it for the boxing of the frame. Heavy? Yea. But by removing the top and bottom flanges, I will have a continuous mirror image of the outside of the frame for as long as I want to make it. Basically from the end of the factory boxing behind the motor mounts all the way back the first cross member above the rear springs. This will capture 2 of the spring mounting area. The front frame horns need modified anyway and will be boxed as well, obviously and the I'll box the rest of the back end of the frame at a later point in the build as I may make a change in that area as well.

I cut the V6 motor engine mounts off of this extra frame for someone a while back. No one wanted to buy the whole frame so I sold him the mounts. Now I guess I'll use some of the carcass for this project. It's already here so no money out the door, except sawzall blades. And I kind of like the idea of one continuous piece rather than several pieces welded in with vertical seems here and there. Maybe it will be too strong??? The V6 frame rails I have measured recently all seem to come in around 3/16 thick. I believe the earlier frames, particularly flat fender frame were thinner.

Well, I better get crackin'. Lots to do today and unfortunately, very little of it is jeep related.

 

Started some preliminary work today. Basically just testing my set up idea for keeping things lined up.

I'm thinking of using these trailer leveling jacks to get the frame level and keep there through the chassis build.

Seems stable enough so far but that may change after the weight of the axles and springs goes away. If I don't like it at that point I'll weld up some bracketry and tack the frame to it.

Not enough room on one square of the floor to cover the front frame horns. Not that my floor actually flat enough to measure off of. I have a construction laser I'll use to check some things as I start and along the way. I was hoping to have a flat area done in the back of the basement of the barn before I ever undertook such a project. Didn't get there yet. Many years ago I did a pad for a friend who was into dirt track racing. The pad was his "chassis pad" as he called it. I anchored 2x2 angle iron to the existing concrete floor in a rectangle big enough to fit his race car chassis and made it perfectly level in all respects then poured concrete inside and carefully finished it. Came out really well and level enough that he could measure off of it to build his cars. Not sprint cars or anything. Just late models. Anyway....

The adjustable jacks allowed me to sort of level the frame rails side to side and front to back. I could only really check at the long flat part of the rails under where the front of the tub would be. can't really reach out to the frame horns which is kind of a problem. Thus the thought of using the construction laser.

I dunno. I already think the front left of the frame is up .25 from the rest. I only really measured in the low area of the frame mentioned above. It will likely be worse farther out. I'll see. Bit, it does seem fairly square initially. Measured diagonally between the radiator cross member to what I call the rear crossmember. I guess what most people call the rear crossmember, at the very end of the frame, is what I call the rear bumper. Move forward to the next crossmember and that is what I reference as the rear crossmember. But that measured out nicely. At some point, I'll drop several points from the frame down onto the floor and measure them to see how square, or not, it really is overall.

Think I'll start ordering some spring mount stuff soon.

 

If you can get sub 1/4" tolerance on a Jeep frame you are doing well. Jeep invented the step bit I think. My project flatfender went on a frame machine, he got it sub 1/8". The body ended up almost 1/4" proud at the rear crossmember on the passenger side to keep it parallel on the frame rails. Don't sweat it...

 

My suggestion on the leveling jacks, would be to take some plywood and frame out some cleats to hold the blocks (above and below) and Jack's in place. Then tack weld the top of the jack to the Jack's.

 

What did that run you? My frame has a pretty significant twist. I've been afraid to check what it might cost to straighten it out. Was it fully assembled? Or just the frame?