Paint - single stage or base/clear

Hi,

I’m getting ready to paint the body on my ECJ5. I want a durable finish. Not really looking for show quality – just a nice finish that is durable. I hear some say go with a single stage others say a base then clear is the way to go. Anyone have thoughts or experience to share?

Thanks,

 

single stage IMO - base clear requires more work

 

Single stage if it's a solid color. You can go acrylic enamel with a hardener for gloss and durability, or urethane for more $$$. Base clear is great for metallic colors, but alot more $$$ as the base coat usually uses different reducers and hardeners than the clear. Several guys here have had good results with TSC enamels, PPG has their OMNI line for the " value minded consumer". HTH

 

I have used both on jeeps. I have done single stage several times and base coat / top coat once. The last jeep I did was single stage.

The next jeeps I do (next spring and summer) will be base coat / top coat.

There are two differences in my mind. First, the respiration is much more critical with base coat / top coat.

Second, when using a single stage one process has to do it all; cover, shine, and no runs.

With the base coat/ clear coat the first coat does the cover and color, and the second coat is the shine and (no) runs. If you do get a run in the top coat it is fairly easy to fix.

If you do elect to go with single stage, anytime you ask for advice and counsel from the paint shop, be sure to emphasize that you are using the single stage, since most of the answers ou may get are for the base / top coat process.

kamel

 

Well, while we're talking about the difference(s), is there any advantage one way or the other if you are going to pin-stripe it in the woods? Scratches in a fancy paint job are sort of a nuisance, aren't they? Will a single stage hold up better? Is it easier to "fix" if you're inclined to do that? I'd like a tough durable paint coat, but not at the expense of fixing the "brush " marks, if that's a hassle.

Might be a moot point in my case: One, I haven't been out in a while. Two, I prolly qualify for a rattle can make-over.

 

I have used single stage Martin Senour (solid color) on my last 2 jeeps. It's not to expensive and easy to use. Buts just my .02

 

Thanks for all of the quick reply. You've offered very good advice. If others haven't chimed in yet, please do.

 

Technically speaking....a pin stripe from a locust tree in the clear coat can be sanded and retouched easily if it did not go through to the base coat.

Sanding an enamel single stage, especially if it has any metal flake in it can be touchy.

If you are not going to use high quality respiration, then the single stage enamel is the way to go. Either way, I always use a full face mask (SAS) because those fumes just irritate my eyes for days on end if I don't.

Also, and it may just be me, but I never open a can of paint, reducer, hardener, or lacquer thinner without a mask on. Between the eye irritation and the irritated throat, etc. it is a requirement for me.

Only when the last cap goes back on after cleanup, does the mask come off.

Also, remember that many if not most auto paints contain lead, both the new paint and old paint, so you'd want a mask if you are sanding.

Cartridges for the particles from sanding are different from vapors from painting, so you'll need separate HEPA and Organic Vapor cartridges. Actually I have two masks...

If, with the mask on you can smell fumes, you do not have the mask on correctly or you do not have the right cartridges, or the cartridges are used up (they contain activated charcoal). I like to keep the cartridges in a baggie when not being used.

I also keep some new spare cartridges on hand, because if I don't I'll be tempted to go ahead and use the worn out ones.

Oh, I also use nitrile gloves - I go through a lot of them when painting and cleaning guns.

kamel

 

IMHO, use a base coat/clear coat system if you're after durability.

I just got done with the first coat of primer on my hood and dash panel, waiting to recoat when I read this. I'm a novice painter but I've done a ton of reading on the subject and I've had the good fortune to be able to pick the brains of a lot of pros. Kamel got me worried about the fumes so here I am sitting at the computer with my mask on. I hope nobody comes to see me right now. Funny sight!

 

Most catalyzed products contain isocyanates. Chemical curing happenns by cross linking molecules. A supplied air system is mandatory for any commercial shop, heartily recomended for all. An organic charcoal respirator is ineffective on isocyanates. I've seen too many guys sick in bed for a couple of days ( I used to sell PBE supplies) cause "It was only primer and some clearcoat". Read your labels, ask your questions. For the 1 or 2 time DIY guys, I still say enamel. Unless Boyd or Chip Foose is doing your workR) R)

 

I've shot a lot of different paint in my day. Used to paint production jet boats for Thunderjet. Of the two you've asked about the single stage is by far the easier of the two and will give you very good results. A base/clear paint, while definitely more durable, requires a lot more work, as said is tough on skin and eyes and can really mess up your lungs, can be a real PITA to get right, and is probably an over the top finish for most jeeps.
If you are a novice I would definitely stay away from base/clear. I would also stay away from metallics. And while on the subject of paint, I'd like to offer an alternative to the high prices of Dupont, Ditzler, PPG and the other "name brand" paints. http://www.paintforcars.com/ Trinity has been around since 1945 and has top quality paint in acrylic enamels and laquers. Mostly used by the hotrod set, Trinity doesn't involve itself in the paint matching business, just offers a complete unchanging palette of colors for reasonable prices. I've used it on several bikes, a couple of boats, a jet ski, and a friend's jeep and I've found it equal or superior to any of the others. The jet ski gets raced and scrubs come off w/ a little compound, the paint's no worse for wear (so far).
I would suggest a gallon of acrylic enamel in your choice of a non-metallic color. Pour yourself off a half pint of touch up paint and lay down the rest (more than you'll need for a jeep but the thicker the better). This will give you a knock out finish thats hard and durable and won't break the bank.
Also unless you have a heated shop/garage, wait until spring. You need at least a week of 70-80*F temps for a good cure.:v6:

 

My brother is painting his TR-10; to quote his email: "I must say, it was easier and turned out better than I ever expected. I used a single-stage urethane called Nason which is a Dupont budget line, and it went on like silk, and flowed out like glass." He's using the Astro HVLP spray gun.

 

ive done both and dont see any difference in the finish look, but its a lot cleaner color sanding a clear coat than color.

 

Hardener contains isocyanates. Hardener is used with enamel and base coat / top coat.

So if charcoal is ineffective for isocyanates, then either method has the same risk. The amount of hardener added in either method is the same (quantity).

 

Here's a little background :http://.www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/EHSIsocyanate.pdfDo as you wish, just don't be uninformed.

 

Speedy was painted with the single stage Nason. Easy to use and not too spendy

 

I agree with most of what has already been said, but grannyscj brings up the best point I can think of and that is to stay away from metallics if you aren't use to painting. There are so many factors that can influence metallic paint that unless you really want that certain color it just isn't worth it. I for one find it just about as easy to do either kind because I am pretty use to painting, but I still screw up quite a bit from time to time. Base/clear lets you screw up more on the color and still come out with a good paint job, but you can also screw up on single stage and do a little fine sanding and buffing and make it look great. One other thing I can tell you is to try to buy good paint, and by that I mean don't do like my cousin just did and buy paint at a discount because the place that mixed it screwed up and he bought it cheap, and then we couldn't really get the correct activator for it. Out of a gallon of paint, I was only able to use about 1/3 because I had to let it set with the lid off overnight to get it to thicken up enough to mix back down and paint with.

 

Make a hood like I did. Go to Graingers web site get one of the 25.oo hood respirators with the face shield. Run a hose from your shop vac blow side to the hood, it pressurizes a doughnut collar that seals off and you have fresh air and no paint gets in!!
Works great!!

My choice is 2 stage

 

No disrespect intended, but I think using a shop vac as a respirator supply sounds like a way to get really sick. Just my opinion.

 

My shop vac would . I use to clean up all sorts of nastyness...the pellet stove, cat box area in the back hallway, drywall dust, the "hanta virus dust" in the garage, all sorts of engine crap. When I open the lid, I usually try to keep my head as from it as I can . A new one would work find though I'd think.