found a mostly stock jeep, but in white kuckle lift hades

I found a 1974 304 in mostly original yellow paint 43k miles, not bad foundation that runs nice...
White knuckled it home 220 miles, tracking and steering, not so nice.

engine and drivetrain, body seem pretty good.
Driveability stinks.

Appears to have 2-2.5" rated add a leafs on stock springs and 4" CTC shackles, the cheapo ones with an even lower set of holes at like 7-8"... It appears the shackles might have been place tightened for more 'fake' lift?, to clear the mounted 33x12.5s on 15x10 rims.

It fights all over the roads and wants to track right, the whole jeep seemed to 'crab' in it's body position while driving, like I was crabbing a plane body tilted right. I was wondering could the axles be misaligned somehow.....
It snowed like @$#@! the last leg of my journey, so I have to defrost here before checking her out. 4wd got a good test...

Has anyone experienced 'cinched tight' shackles to make for a higher stance, is this notion I have even possible? I highly suspect they are cranked down. I'll know when I get to it, probably tomorrow.

I know at this point I either have to get stock height or get it right on a mild lift. To keep the 15x10's I'd have to go to 31 or 32x11.50s I think with a 'real' 2.5" lift spring...I am just wondering on other's thought for the abominable tracking and handling based on the concept of someone overtightening shackles, add a leafs in general, etc.

One of my more exciting 'rescue' drive's, bringing a new oldie home, but I have to get on this problem right away.

 

Typical problem is that the lift wipes out the caster. You can often add some tapered shims between the spring and axle to fix it. Search for "caster" and you'll find lots of threads.

Check toe-in too.

You can run 31s without a lift.

 

Crabbing is not a good thing! Check where the springs bolt to the axles....If wedges were used the spring center bolts might not have been extended and the axles might be shifting. Any pics of the suspension?

 

First off, remove those shackles. Get a quality set, no more than about a 1" lift. As CJRick stated, start checking the suspension and make sure it's all lined up and tight.

Picts. We need picts. We like picts.

 

"other's thought for the abominable"
Think you found a name for it!
When I got my 75 the shackles were pinched tight and bushings/bolts rusted so the springs wouldn't move.

 

Here's my expectations at this point.
1) cheap shackles 'pinched' while it was in the air making for ride height, making static 'lift-hangers'. :?
2) worn stock springs, possibly broken.
3) add a leaf, possibly without center bolt cinched to stock spring and just riding the add a leaf (would make for rear axle shift circumstance and the fact it drives fine a bit then gets unsettled after an acting force, then you fight.

4) since stock springs aren't longer like a lift spring, even the .5" actual shackle lift probably caused the same caster degree change as a 4" lift spring. It might be close.

my biggest economic problem is the 15x10 rims and that it's on 33"s. I have to do a 2-2.5" spring install and leave it overtired for a few months then get probably 32x11.50x15s on it or go for rims and tires later.

Don't want to go into 4" lift land.

I'm looking to keep it stockish/resto-vintage

 

Dude, that's a nice CJ. Good find!! Take care of it. Not many around in good shape like that anymore.

 

Nice looking Jeep - you should be proud.

 

it's not that bad thanks. The body is not 100% perfect, but it can be pretty easily. The rear near the taillights needs a bit of help, but it's fairly early in the decay cycle. Underbody and frame appears nice with no undercoating hiding moves and such.

The diamondplate is covering some junk, but not severe. I will be attending to that likely summer.

It runs well and is a driver, but this suspension/steering/tracking thing has to get solved.

I want to stay at a 2.5" lift, no higher. It fits in my garage now and I want to keep it that way. I will probably look for 15x8 (I wish the original rims were with it!) and 31" or settle for 32x11.50 on the 15x10s I have now.

I got in the garage and am defrosting it to take suspension pics, get under it, and I'll probably drain the Gl-4 out of the t-15 and the 20 case and change it with the stalube stash I have.

I'll do axles when I fix the lift nightmare.

I agree, I believe the center bolt on the plates are a possible vector, perhaps they are ONLY bolted to the add a leaf even.. EEEK!

 

Man, that is sharp. Hope you figure it out, but sounds like you are going in the right direction.

 

On a side note, is anyone aware of factory/dealer striping like that?

It doesn't say 'Renegade' anywhere, but it's paint code is 510, renegade yellow.
Also of curiosity is the location of the JEEP name, near door bottom, can I assume this is a late production 1974?

No way it has the optional 4.09 gearing, since it has a column mounted SUN tach showing pitiful R's at speed.
I also doubt track lock but I will search for the tag before I dump the gear oil back there.

Sort of like a quasi-renegade? Those stripes show age, they are stickers, and it really hasn't been repainted.

The hood was however, it's obvious enough.

It should be defrosted soon in the garage....I'll get pics and a closer look at my suspension hell.


Is it of anyone's option I can save it 'for now' with just new quality .5 lift or less (4" CTC) shackles, assuming the center bolt for the springs is checked/attended to, or should I just not bother and ditch the springs right away? I'd assume 34 years and 43K miles, the springs are SHOT, right?

Sorry, coming from VW torsion bar land!

Al

 

Yes. Same location as the '75 body style.

No 4.09 gears in '74. The factory ratios are 3.73 (std) and 4.27 (opt).

Most modern gear oils are compatible with limited-slip. It will say so on the bottle. Then no worries, LSD or not.

Golden Eagle sells the Renegade stripes. All the factory Renegades I recall have had the name in the stripe somewhere.

Give us some pics from under the Jeep. Usually these springs go flat, but your Jeep rides pretty high. I'd get rid of the extended shackles and fix the center bolts first.

Call Bob Supplee (see the parts sources sticky thread at the top of the Early CJ forum). He can give you a good price on replacement springs, and you can decide better having that.

 

I apologize for my ratio confusion, this has 3.73 not 4.27, can't be.



I didn't want to clutter the thread with tons of pics, but I will post this one. Besides the shackles looking, well bent, 'crimped' and generally evil, this is one scary one:




I'm sure by summer I'll be taking it all apart to restore it, but I tend to like to make things run first to play around with a few months to get that 'karma' going.

 

Sorry I missed your link in the previous post.

The added leaves are too wide - this is what's pushing your u-bolts apart (you probably knew that though).

The standard leaf springs are 9 leaves front, 5 leaves rear. Your springs look like the factory springs with an extra leaf added. Here are some pictures of the standard setup on my CJ-6:

Rear:

Front:

Stock shackle:

You can take the packs apart and clean them up - they'll work ok. You'll also want to replace the spring eye and frame bushings. I'd predict that will straighten things out a lot.

 

Oh my.

How 'bout just pull out the add-a-leaves, put in some stock shackles, and find a set of vintage Renegade wheels? Would look good with that stripe and color code, methinks.

 

Actually I added pics to the directory when you asked, no need to apologize either way.

Is it a probable assumption I could:

keep the stock springs:
loose the add a leafs.
reuse the present Ubolt kit.
replace shackles with stock shackles (where do I find these?)
replace bushings
replace pitman to stock
probable tie rod and drag link replacement
alignment.

would that get rid of my measured 5 NEG caster angles? I measured these using bubble protractor on each wheel to find an upper ball joint leading the lower by 5deg (those POS readers with the wide bubble are probable +-2)

If the above plan is feasible, will the retro warn 8000 on the front make a difference? I pulled the 30 year old cable off that today, that would have killed someone..........another story..


and my last IF, can it roll down the road, turn and pray I don't hit a bump with the 33s until I can get like 30s?
I'd love to find just stocky rims for it, even if I just find used of appropriate size.

I have no problem running stock equipment I don't need it high, the only necessity appears to be my tires.

thanks for all the help

Also the add a leafs are 2" that particular example is skewed along the stock spring. U bolt plate center nuts were visible in side the plate hole, on very long bolt. It's possible it's just through the add, but possibly though the stack.

 

If I were you, I would just buy a new 2.5" kit and new OE type shackles. It will eliminate all your spring/aal problems,you will have new bushings and I can guarantee it will ride/drive much better than the current set up.

 

I just removed the front suspension.

It was certainly luck I survived a 220 mile ride home with 50 miles of 4wd snow driving.

6 of the u bolt nuts were at about 15-20lbs or less torque, two came off by hand and one on each front side had maybe 35lbs of torque on it.

The add a leafs ARE too wide, they had some hack grinding on one edge each. One was spun as the photos show.

The shackles were cinched tight, seemingly distorting them. I started here actually and each spring relaxed a bit when I loosened the lower shackle bolt, and the shackle starting being able to move. I found no grease on any bolt in the front shackles.

I agree the stock springs are probably shot, the bushings are and will be very difficult to remove.

My opinons are now:
the entire axle could shift a bit from side to side
the dropped pitman let the pass side spring influence steering by touching the tie rod.
the shackles used with the stock springs and the add a leaf made for a total 9deg caster change (measured at 5degree NEGATIVE)
all the above made driving scary.

Since the rear will also likely have loose U bolt nuts, the too wide add a leafs with sheezey grinding, and bad bushings with also likely bent shackles (crimped in from super tightening) is don't see much recourse but to change them all.

I really think the best answer now is 'all of the above' the shocks look generic but new, so that can stay I suppose same with stabilizer.

shopping list is as follows:
2.5" springs
stock shackles or stock-like shackles. Can I get away with stock with 2.5 springs, as in fit??
shims just in case I need to restore caster or rear pinion angle
a stock straight pitman arm.
a new tie rod assembly, mines probably tweaked.

I am also considering going to 31s, since I found a local set of 80% tread BFG mud terrain on white wagon steelies for 375.00

I think that and a rack alignment when I'm done will at least alllow me to enjoy driving her and starting the break-fix cycle on an old ride.

bringing me back to the 100 hours I spent once wire wheeling an entire undercarriage on a unibody vw bus to repaint it with the factory grey primer....I suspect the easier access here is going to make that tempting later...

 

Sounds like you are on the right track. I think the plan you have to fix the bad stuff is a good one. 31's will be fine. I imagine you get everything right on the jeep and it will be lots of fun to sport around in.

At least it's a farily easy fix.