engine /tranny /transfer case question

I have a 73 cj5 with 232/t14/d20 - all stock with stock axles and 2.5 inch lift. It all works and runs but the 232 is pretty much shot.:smash:So I have some work to do one way or another.

I also have a 305 chevy I'd love to put in my Jeep. I have run across a chevy sm465 mated to a np208 transfer case (from an 86 chevy truck). My question is will my motor and this tranny/transfer case go together in my cj? I know the sm465 can be mated to my d20 with an expensive adaptor (about $500) and I'm willing to go that route if this one doesn't work. Any info you guys have would be appreciated.

 

A Chevy 208 should be a passenger drop unit. I think the 208 would be a fine choice, but check the overall length of the combo. Typically pickup truck setups are very long, with a long transmission to transfer case adapter. In a CJ-5, you cant afford a few extra inches of length for the adapter, plus the extra length of the SM265.

You could go AMC 4.0L pretty easily... it'd be a drop-in swap for the 232.

 

and it probably makes more power than the 305.

 

So you are saying a 4.0 will bolt up to my t14? Geez that would be much simpler if it works. What year model donor engine should I search for? I know they made the 258 for several years and then upgraded to the 4.0 - not sure which year it changed.

 

Yes, the 4.0L will bolt up to your bellhousing and sit on your motormounts with no changes. There are some minor differences, but on balance very easy.

The 4.0L is the same family as the 232 and 258, but has a shorter stroke and larger bore than the 258. All the 4.0Ls are fuel injected, so you have to use the factory fuel injection stuff or convert to a carburetor. The main obstacle to using the fuel injection is the need for a crank position sensor (CPS) that's normally located on the bellhousing. You can buy a kit to convert to a front-mounted CPS from HESCO, or you can have your bellhousing modified to accept the factory CPS. To convert to carburetion, you need a carburetor and a 81-on 258 intake manifold.

There are basically two types of 4.0L engines - the 87-90 4.0L with Renix (Renault-Bendix) multiport fuel injection (MPI) and the 91-on 4.0L HO (high output) with a redesigned cylinder head and the excellent Mopar MPI. The HO is the usual choice for conversion, but if you can find a good Renix engine, it should be cheap.

There was a forum about Jeep 4.0L conversions, but it's closed. The old posts are archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/20081223154232/http://www.cjoffroad.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=24

 

Thanks, Tim - that looks like the route I will go. All the additional work to get the 305 in there just seems pointless, given the ease of using the 4.0. Also found this link that has some good 4.0 history:

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techartic..._kick_ass_engine_history_4_liter/viewall.html

PS - I love this forum.

 

Another option if like to have a v8 go with a 304 or 360...not sure but suppose to be bolton to youre t-14 maybe other could confirm....

 

Yes, the V8 is also compatible with the bellhousing, but not with the frame mounts. The engine mount towers change and it will change the lengths of your driveshafts IIRC.

The main difficulty with a V8 here is the T-14. IMO the T-14 will not withstand V8 power - it's absolutely not up to 360 power. Of course, much depends on the driver.

The 4.0L is really a tidy swap here, though it does increase your possibility of blowing up the T-14. But don't thrash it and it should last ok.

 

I have a 97 XJ 4.0L-based 4.6L stroker in my 82 Scrambler and I'm assembling the pieces to do a 4.0L MPFI conversion on the 258 in my 74 CJ5. The Scrambler runs an aftermarket Painless Performance fuel injection system instead of the factory ECM and harness. This is a great system that runs really well, but is expensive, around $1500 for the Painless ecm/harness all the component pieces (sensors are not included in the kit and must be purchased separately, adding up to over $500 more in sensors alone, have you priced an Oxygen Sensor lately?).

For the CJ5 I'm using factory 91-95 OBD1 parts. I'm using a 7120 casting number 4.0L head on my 258 block and an intake/injectors from a 94 XJ. Still deciding whether to go with a factory harness or spring the $$ for Hesco's aftermarket harness. Lots of extraneous wires in the factory harness that can be eliminated if you have the time and patience, or you can buy the Hesco harness which is basically plug and play. You will need an ECM, which runs anywhere from $100 to $300 depending on the source.

Do a lot of research if you plan this swap. It's not cheap, and it can get very complicated. You can assemble most of the parts from the junkyard, but specialty items like the Hesco damper/CPS relocation kit are around $300. You'll also need a Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is another hundred or so bucks. You'll also need a high pressure electric fuel pump, which is several hundred bucks Add up all the pieces required for a 4.0L swap and you'll see that it quickly runs into the thousands of dollars range. A Chevy V8 swap can be done much more cheaply, but you'll still have a carbed engine with 1950's technology when it's over with.

Take it from someone who has experience with this swap, it's not quite as cheap and easy as it sounds in theory.

 

I'm gonna be the odd man out here & say go with the 305. Why? The transmission! Even though the 305 is generally regarded as a turd, it would have plenty of power for a CJ. The T14 is pretty weak, and has a 3.10 1st gear, whereas the SM465 is bulletproof and has a 6.55 1st gear. Sure, you'll need an expensive adapter, but it sounds expensive getting a 4.0 to work in there, too.

A lot would depend on your intended usage-street & light trail use, the 4.0 3 spd would be a good choice.
For more hard core use go with the V8 & 4 spd.

 

Why not find another 232/258 to put in there? AMC cars, Jeep trucks and Wagons, and of course CJ's used them so may be able to find a good used unit that would bolt right in with minimal fuss.

 

Lots of good info coming in on this thread. My thinker is working overtime and at my age I don't have that many good brain cells left. The reason I was hoping to us the 305 was that....wait for it...I already have it. My biggest concern in using it is overall length. As Tim said, with the 465 and np208 things may get way too long. I will get some measurements to be sure tomorrow. My fallback plan will be the 4.0 I think. I am not against a 258 but they are harder and harder to find in decent shape and the 4.0 is easy to find. Either way I'm gonna spend some Benjamins on this project - no way around it. As somebody said, Just Empty Every Pocket. (JEEP)

 

One approach would be to buy a complete XJ - wrecked or rusted would be ok. This has a couple of advantages. First, you get all the factory bits to make a running engine. You'd still need some extra parts (ie CPS issue, maybe a different VSS?). You can use your 232 flywheel if you move the CPS to the front, or buy an aftermarket flywheel, so an automatic car would be ok. Second, you get to hear the engine run, which is a big advantage when you're buying a used engine. And, as you said, there are quite a few of them out there.

I would not hesitate to use an XJ factory harness, but I'm quite comfortable with electrical and electronic stuff... as mentioned above, once you start having to buy a lot of new, extra parts, the costs go up pretty fast.

Nothing wrong with the 305 - lots of Chevy V8s have been put into these Jeeps. The SM465 has a lot of appeal, but check the OAL.

You should check out your local Jeep and 4x4 club boards. They can be a good source for used vehicles and components. You might find a good replacement 232 or 258 there.

 

If he got a t150 trans with the bellhousing from a 6, or 8cyl , wouldnt that bolt up to his 305, and he keeps his trans case with no adapters? The t14 is questionable anyway and you can pick up t150's all day for the cheap and I know it will hold to v8 power. There wouldnt be any mods other than installing the 305 and wiring it would there??

 

Yes, the T-150 is a Ford transmission (built on license by Tremac), and in general, Ford transmissions can be adapted to Chevy bells. Novak has a page about it: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_gm.htm

Novak also sells an adapter for SBC to T-150, and I recall there's something about the T-150 that makes it a little different from the T-18 and T-19 (slightly longer stickout? It was discussed on the site before, but I don't recall the details). "The Jeep T150 has a 1-3/8" x 6 spline output shaft for mounting the transfer case input gear. The transmission has a 7-1/2" input shaft (stick-out length) with 1-1/16" x 10 splines and a neoprene front seal and cast iron bearing retainer. The pilot tip is ~17mm." And ... "The Ford T18 has a 1-1/16" diameter, ten spline input shaft that has a stick-out of 6-1/2" from the front face of the transmission." So the stickout of the T-150 may be too long to work with the Chevy bell. May be possible with some minor machining, or maybe with correct pilot bushing choice?

The T-150 is stronger than the T-14, but not as strong as the T-15. The T-150 was used behind the 304 and 258 in CJs from 1976 through 1979.

 

The pilot on the T-150 input is longer. If cut down it's the same as the Ford input. AMC V-8's used a small pilot bushing on the inner step of the crank for the T-150. There is an outer step in the crank that you can use a pilot bushing and the shorter pilot of the Ford or GM input. Other than the pilot the T-150 input is the same length as GM or standard Ford inputs like T-18's, Muncies, etc.

 

The only downside to this is finding a donor XJ that doesn't have about half a million miles on it. The most desirable and easiest swap candidates are 91-95 OBD1 versions. Finding an XJ of that vintage in which the 4.0L isn't already completely worn out is a challenge. Why go to all the trouble and expense just to swap in a high mileage engine? Sure you can use the parts from the XJ and rebuild the 4.0L but then you're starting to look at a several thousand dollar swap.

The other issue is the fuel pump. The XJ used an in-tank electric fuel pump. You would need to mount an external fuel pump and a way to regulate the pressure to the psi required by the system you're using. In my case that means a Ford E2000 fuel pump ($100) along with a WJ fuel filter ($50) which has a built in 50psi regulator and return, which is required by the OBD2 system. Still more parts and more $$.

 

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic here but why not just rebuild the 232?

I rebuilt mine for under $1,000. The machine shop bored it, reset the entire head (including new valves and seats) put in new freeze plugs, milled the top and turned the crank for less than $600. It cost another $400 for new cylinders, rings, bearings, cam, etc. Took less than a week (in my spare time after work) to put it all together. Runs like a top.

This was my first rebuild and I wanted the experience more than anything -- certainly there are better engines than the 232. But after the rebuild was done, there were no issues with retro-parts to get the thing to fit right. And I know I've got 100,000 miles before I have to worry again. jmho

 

Thats definitely an option. Rebuilding the 232 would be fun and by far the cheapest, simplest route. However, If I can find a 258 locally for cheap I'll likely do that because extra bit of zip from the 258 would definitely be nice. My original idea of 305/465/208 is likely out the window because that combo is so long you would have almost no room for drive shafts unless you lengthened the whole rig and I'm not down for that at this point. A 4.0 is still an option - it all comes down to what I can find cheap and close by. Good to know you have a good experience with your rebuild.

By the way, did you change carbs or upgrade the distributor when you rebuilt it? I've heard good things about the pertronix upgrade. Thanks

 

When I got the Jeep, the engine was pretty shot. The PO had used it as a hunting vehicle. The gaskets were all blown and there was water in the engine.

I rebuilt the engine first, then drove it around as a junker for a while. The body was brown, dirty and rusty. I used to laugh when I'd flip the hood and show off my perfect engine.

After about 1,000 miles, I put on a newer model intake manifold and a header pipe ($45 for the manifold and $100 for the header, both off Craigslist). I rebuilt a Motorcraft 2100 carb I picked up at a junkyard and swapped out the Carter 1bb.

I didn't drive it much after that because I stripped it down to the frame and I'm rebuilding from the bottom up.

I did buy an HEI distributor but I started taking everything apart before I ever put the thing on.