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Road shock in steering wheel

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by WorkInProgress, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Sep 27, 2015
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    Finally got back to driving my 59 cj5 and I notice quite a bit of road vibrations coming back up to the steering wheel. What parts of the system control this? so I know where all to check

    I think the drag link is the only part that takes care of this but I'm not sure. I haven't really disassembled the drag link before but almost everything else is new. I have taken the drag link off each end before one at a time but I am positive I put it back on with the ball between the 2 cups but if internals are missing from a previous owner or if the springs inside are broken I don't know

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sep 27, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    What part controls it?............everything that is connected , from the steering wheel to the tires on the Ground.........If you have almost replaced everything , then perhaps by taking the wear out of the system has just amplified the vibrations............Lets face it by comparison Jeep suspension and steering in a 59 CJ with a Ross gear box is 1940 technology. Getting a decent ride out of a CJ is more about tire pressure and springs rates..............lots of metal to metal along the reach of the Ross steering from the gear box to the spindles..........maybe a steering shock absorber might help?
     
  3. Sep 27, 2015
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    I'd almost bet money that your tires are giving you the vibrations.....On a side note- what wheels are those? They look like standard early 16" Jeeps wheels, but either wider, or less back space. Looks good!
    But I'll bet those worn out bias-ply traction tires are the culprit...;)
     
  4. Sep 27, 2015
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    :iagree:

    Steering component's won't generate vibrations, they'll just move them from whatever's causing the issue up to the steering wheel. As Patrick said your first suspect should the the tires/wheels.

    H.
     
  5. Sep 27, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    The drag link and the springs you mentioned would definitely be the only thing that will absorb road shock, but they can only do so much. I agree with the tires probably being a big part of the equation, along with the fact that driving something modern will spoil a person.
     
  6. Sep 27, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Possibly incipient Death Wobble, starting to show symptoms?
     
  7. Sep 27, 2015
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    New tie rods. Kingpin bearings. Ross box rebuilt. Bell crank replaced. Everything.

    Think they are 8 pack leaf springs and 7.50x16 tires with tubes and are wearing funny. Rims are factory 16 inch that appear to have had the center section removed, flipped and welded back in so now my valve stems are inside which is a pain in the *** to check pressure

    Also my 48 cj2a rides much smoother and little road vibrations it's had everything replaced too.

    Says in my FSM that a properly adjusted drag link lessens road vibrations
     
  8. Sep 27, 2015
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    I'd put new tires on it, and check the toe-in. You can send those wheels to me..;)
     
  9. Sep 27, 2015
    WadeS

    WadeS Member

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    Agree with Patrick No offense but you tires look pretty bad.
     
  10. Sep 28, 2015
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    The alignment was done 2 years ago and has had about 1000 miles on it since. They didn't have my cj5 in computer so they used DJ Specs from a much newer. They said they are all the same but I didn't like it.

    Here is what it was and what they did
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Sep 28, 2015
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    I don't know jack about alignment stuff but looking at these numbers I wonder why left front is so different from the right? Maybe I have a bent knuckle or something but I don't know how to tell what's bent and needs replacing
     
  12. Sep 28, 2015
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Caster is too low, and camber on the RF is too low. Likely worn steering knuckle king pin bearings, loose wheel bearings, etc.
    I'd find out why the camber is low on that side (and correct it), put come caster shims under the spring pads (I personally like 5+ degrees), and adjust the toe to 1/8" or so with a tape measure.
     
  13. Sep 28, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Now you are getting somewhere. Caster makes the wheels track straight ahead. Too littl caster lets the road shock have more of an effect on the wheel direction than it would if the tracking force were correct.

    The camber is built-in to the axle. Something has to be broken to have a significant mismatch side to side. I expect the goofy camber will make your tires wear fast and strangely.

    Good advice from Patrick.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  14. Sep 28, 2015
    WorkInProgress

    WorkInProgress Member

    Kennewick, Wa
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    I have remnants of a small shackle lift still on the back but I removed the front already. That's probably not helping caster
     
  15. Sep 28, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Caster........should be about 5-7 degrees


    Duh, Thanks Tim..........OK ....how is that?...........you know what I meant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  16. Sep 28, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Shackle lift on the back won't detectably affect the caster. Do you have lift springs?

    And - please no offense - it's CASTER not CASTOR. Castor is a character from Roman myth, ie Castor and Pollux. It's a star in the Gemini constellation. It's the genus name for beavers. And it's a type of oil - castor oil. Caster is the wheel that you put on the bottom of your desk chair so it will roll around. That's where the suspension geometry measurement "caster" comes from, because it's how much the steering axis leads or trails the vertical axis, like a caster.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
    tripilio likes this.
  17. Sep 28, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I disagree from personal experience. Especially on a short wheel-based vehicle. The longer the wheel-base the less effect it will have. The length of the shackle will obviously determine the effect also.
     
  18. Sep 28, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    I think you meant camber on the left front is too low, but I heartily agree. I've found the sweet spot is 5-7 degrees positive on caster. Any more than that and the tires wear excessively in corners and you can get some high speed instability. Any less and they don't track very well.
     
  19. Sep 28, 2015
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    CJ and DJ aren't the same at all. CJ's are really not adjustable.

    And you might try a different set of wheels. Could be that cutting and rewelding job has thrown off the balance. Tire pressure can cause what you describe also.
     
  20. Sep 28, 2015
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    The Service Manual states that camber is set at time of manufacture and can not be reset. The usual cause of bad camber is a bent axle end or steering knuckle. New parts must be used, because straitening procedures weaken the parts involved.

    Hope this helps and makes sense.
     
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